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UK 800m - state of play

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  • #91
    jimbo, right on with that observation. The WC are the earliest they have ever been , since 1983.Just a crazy demanding year for Europeans and Africans. Back to normal next year, hopefully.

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    • trickstat
      trickstat commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes, the Budapest WCs are 19-27th August.

  • #92
    Ian Hodge notes on his twitter that a returning Giles is 4th, while Thomas Staines just beats him [into 3rd?], both with 1.46 and bits, in France. I am pleased to see Staines make it over the pond and hope he has a plan to attend the champs. Overall I am fairly agnostic about who makes the WCs/CGs, with Burgin clearly in the poll position time-wise. I just hope all the leading protagonists are fit and healthy on the starting line.
    Last edited by carterhatch; 16-06-22, 11:16.

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    • MysteryBrick
      MysteryBrick commented
      Editing a comment
      Amen to that.

      One thing I had not engaged with is that due to the dates of the Championships, GB actually have 8 (!) men with the standard:
      Max Burgin - 1:43.52 Jun 2022
      Elliot Giles - 1:44.05 Jul 2021
      Daniel Rowden - 1:44.35 Aug 2021
      Archie Davis - 1:44.72 Jul 2021
      Jake Wightman - 1:44.97 Sep 2021
      Thomas Randolph - 1:44.98 Aug 2021
      Jamie Webb - 1:45.12 Jul 2021
      Ben Pattison - 1:45.16 Jun 2022

      Now Davis and Randolph are in abysmal form, while Wightman will obviously run the 1500m, but there will still be 5 in the race with a real chance to go, and with Burgin there it won't be slow (plus Thomas Staines is 0.08 off with 1:45.28 this season). Should be a fine race!

  • #93
    Yes, a nice slow tactical, nervy race,, for sure , unless Burgin goes out on his own quicker than the others in the second half of the race. I recall last years mass hype about what GBs 800m guys were likely to do in Tokyo. Yeah.!!

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    • #94
      Any two from 5 or 6. Pattison and Burgin.??

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      • #95
        Staines ran a terrible race tactically in Marseille, boxed and chopping his stride for 500m and then running wide from 500 to 700.. I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat Giles again in Manchester if he gets a clearer run.

        A slow, tactical race would certainly suit the experienced guys - Giles, Webb and Rowden (although he seemed t pull up limping in Turku) but has anyone ever seen Burgin, when fit, run a slow first lap? I assume he'll go out in no slower than 51. Burgin and Pattison are the two in form but Webb and Giles are on an upward curve and Staines looks like he's ready, so I agree it is Burgin plus 2 from 4. Beyond that, I think our prospects for Worlds are pretty similar to last year - 50% chance of a finalist with a medal a remote possibility.

        One for the future: Reece Sharman-Newell. Looks like he lost form or was injured after his 1:45.5 in April (NCAA DII record, I think) - he was only 5th at the DII Champs and ran a 1:49 last weekend in Watford. However, he looks really classy and I wouldn't be surprised to see him emerge properly next year.

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        • carterhatch
          carterhatch commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for the added info on Staines' race. 12 months ago Dustin would have been in the conversation but looks nowhere in that form. Langford may yet make his presence felt, and I sense this race, more than any, will have some drama [a DQ, a fall] that will give the selectors a headache.

        • Christy93
          Christy93 commented
          Editing a comment
          Dustin is in great shape by all accounts, performances on the track haven't really reflected his shape, but I've heard a few people saying that this season, most notably Laura Muir. When it clicks he'll be dangerous - But there isn't much time left if he wants to make teams this summer.

        • Occasional Hope
          Occasional Hope commented
          Editing a comment
          The other question is, who gets the selectors' discretionary pick if finishing out of the top 2?

          My bet would be Giles based on past performance and experience, assuming Burgin gets an auto place.

      • #96
        And now Langford has the standard too! The race gets even more tasty. I'm assuming Gourley will still go for the 1500m, although that 1:44 800m shows that he's not going to be fun to have to race in the that final!

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        • Occasional Hope
          Occasional Hope commented
          Editing a comment
          Gourley's not entered in the 800.

      • #97
        Bets on Burgin running hard from the front and the others letting him go away? Nobody will want to be the effective pace make behind him and risking losing the 2nd automatic qualifying spot.

        Langford finally got the time that his form in prior races has shown and I fancy him for 2nd. Tom Staines will be dangerous and Giles could still get turn it around. Can’t wait!

        A shame that with just one round to the final that the heats could throw up a nasty surprise or two.

        Comment


        • Occasional Hope
          Occasional Hope commented
          Editing a comment
          Or maybe someone who doesn't have the standard might want o go with Max to try to get it?

        • MysteryBrick
          MysteryBrick commented
          Editing a comment
          Ordinarily I would say that heat then final could throw a nasty surprise, but this I definitely feel that if you aren't good enough to make it through the heat reasonably easily you definitely aren't good enough to make the team.

        • MysteryBrick
          MysteryBrick commented
          Editing a comment
          And Occasional Hope - I definitely agree, especially someone like Staines. You aren't likely to get many better opportunities than a pacemaker for 800m.

      • #98
        Also, it must be noted that GB now has 10 athletes with the World standard in the men's 800m. Only Kenya, with 12, has more.

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        • #99
          https://youtu.be/64_t1RT7UxA

          Video from Pfungstadt of Langford + Gourley.

          Also, something is really wrong with Dustin - he needs to stop for the season and work out what it is in his body that is giving him all these problems rather than keep plugging away and likely making things worse. He's so young he's got ages, rather than just keeping racing badly.

          Comment


          • MR_ME
            MR_ME commented
            Editing a comment
            Jenny Meadows said 2 days ago on twitter that Dustin is fit and healthy and just waiting for things to click. She is hoping it will come together before trials. He seemed to give up in that race so maybe its not the best indication of how he's doing.

          • CAML
            CAML commented
            Editing a comment
            When a 1.43 athlete runs 1.46, you can say they are out of form. When a 1.43 athlete struggles to break 1.50 all season, they should not be running. Something is drastically wrong.

        • Originally posted by MysteryBrick View Post
          Also, it must be noted that GB now has 10 athletes with the World standard in the men's 800m. Only Kenya, with 12, has more.
          So what; we couldnt get a finalist in the 800m last year despite the eternal hyping up our guys by a certain poster here. Forgot his name. None of our guys this year looks likely to achieve a top 4 or 5 position in the 800m final this year at Eugene. The fastest GB athlete in the 800m this year is a very talented athlete but he needs 3 rounds to stay fit and to fight out , and it aint Diamond League, as we all know.

          Comment


          • MysteryBrick
            MysteryBrick commented
            Editing a comment
            So it's still a good thing to have 10 athletes of a good quality, as opposed to 0 or 1, as in a lot of other events.

        • Originally posted by Runner88 View Post
          Bets on Burgin running hard from the front and the others letting him go away? Nobody will want to be the effective pace make behind him and risking losing the 2nd automatic qualifying spot.

          Langford finally got the time that his form in prior races has shown and I fancy him for 2nd. Tom Staines will be dangerous and Giles could still get turn it around. Can’t wait!

          A shame that with just one round to the final that the heats could throw up a nasty surprise or two.
          it is not so much getting on the team this w/e ,but how they perform in the WC. What a disappointment this year is Rowden who gave us expectations; if its the usual 1.48/9 speed for the first 600m, any one can upset the applecart. I do not think that our athetes are losing too much sleep about this w/e; in six weeks time the CG will be in Birmingham and there will be another crack at GB representation in Munich.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by marilyn1 View Post

            I do not think that our athetes are losing too much sleep about this w/e; in six weeks time the CG will be in Birmingham and there will be another crack at GB representation in Munich.
            Genuine question - did you ever compete? If you think that any one of the athletes in contention for WCH qualification will be anything short of absolutely gutted at not making the team, you have no understanding of an athlete's mentality. And I'm not talking just about elite athletes. Pretty much anyone who laces up spikes - from teenagers to Masters - have goals and feel utterly rubbish when they don't achieve them.

            Comment


            • With Pattison's 1:44.64 at Trafford today, I now make it that 8 of the UK top 20 are all currently active (Burgin, Giles, Dustin, Rowden, Webb, Wightman, Langford, Pattison), with 3 of them U23s. This hasn't yet paid dividends at a major yet, but this kind of strength in depth can only be a good thing in developing strong racers (as in, to actually place well at the UK champs you have to race well) and pushing on those coming through to believe they can get that good too.

              Comment


              • trickstat
                trickstat commented
                Editing a comment
                I can't see us not getting a finalist in 3 straight worldwide champs. The one downside of having so many quite closely matched runners is that the best 3 can change from week to week.

              • SprintRelayFan
                SprintRelayFan commented
                Editing a comment
                MB what’s the deal with Dustin please?

            • Here’s a wonderful story I found on the Totallympics board about Joanne Fenn, an 800m runner of the 2000s who fell away with injury & illness.

              My sister was a good 800m runner at junior level here in Poland. She was 6th at Junior Nationals one year.

              And her favourite 800m runner was an English athlete - Joanne Fenn. A really good runner, a very nice person, she took part in Athens 2004 olympics, performed well but didn't make it to a final and then was a bit overshadowed by Kelly Holmes magnicifient triumph.

              Back in 2006 my sis had a difficult year, serious exams at the end of the highschool etc. She was quite stressed about it and to cheer her up I wrote an e-mail to an English athletics club, Joanne Fenn trained there, and I said sth like: my sis liked her so much, she's a kind of role model for her, so if she could send a photo with a few words of sympathy that would be awesome... and I asked her: make it a surprise for her.

              And few days later a surprise package came from UK, and inside there was not only a photo with greetings, but a full running outfit prepared for Fenn as a member of 2006 England Team for Commonwealth Games held in Melbourne that year. We were just stunned.

              And then... it turned out that Fenn made it to a team and then - at the very last moment - she had to withdraw because she had really serious health issues, she had even got a major operation on a grapefruit-sized cyst...

              So I guess it was a win-win situation. My sister was sooo happy about it and I think Jo Fenn smiled a bit when at her awfullest times she got news that she means so much for young runners somwehere abroad.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanne_Fenn

              There is not so much news on the internet about what's Joanne Fenn is doing these days but I hope she's healthy and she's having a good life.

              I think we still have these clothes somewhere...”

              Comment


            • I believe Muir would have got at least a bronze in the 800m in Eugene. With AM and KH not quite in 2021 form, and Kipyegon imperious, I could visualise Muir winning the 800 in 1.56.2, whereas silver was the best on offer in the 1500. Ifs and what might have been.

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