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UK 800m - state of play

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  • #76
    Can see the actual results here have been disappointing given the good prospects suggested by the earlier parts of the season. But I wouldn't be too down about things : three highly promising young athletes at the same time - hasn't happened this time but surely the future looks bright ? Agree with comments above about the adverse publicity probably derailing Dustin. Burgin may need to adjust his training plan. Rowden knows he got it a bit wrong (and was arguably unlucky to be impeded) ...but who hasn't messed up 800 tactics in a big event : Remember Tom McKean , 1991, anyone ?

    Next year or two will be fascinating.

    Comment


    • #77
      I do have high hopes for Oliver Dustin's future. At 19 he was really ahead of schedule in making the Olympics this time, and it will have been useful experience for him. What I particularly like is that he has both a really fast turn of pace at the end, and can run a fast time overall.

      Comment


      • SprintRelayFan
        SprintRelayFan commented
        Editing a comment
        Oh I don't think i realised he was quite that young.
        Yes, I was possibly too gloomy overall it's just that given the competition to get into the team it smarts not to have a single finalist

      • Occasional Hope
        Occasional Hope commented
        Editing a comment
        800 heats are always full of jeopardy though.

    • #78
      Originally posted by jjimbojames View Post
      On Burgin - it might be the case that his dad has taken him so far and done an amazing job - but he may need to move to improve. Not everyone can take a kid to world class and then push them further still. Fine balance between that and the sense of poaching, but I think we have a few athletes (across disciplines) that might benefit from moving on…but it’s a big move, that doesn’t always pay off…
      He’s moved to the Jenny Meadows / Trevor Painter group, trains with Hodgkinson

      Comment


      • jjimbojames
        jjimbojames commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes - saw they’d done some warm weather training but didn’t know it was a full move. Good news!

      • trickstat
        trickstat commented
        Editing a comment
        There's a lot to be said for Burgin and Hodgkinson being in the same group. They are both the same age and have run 'senior' type times while still teenagers. In fact they're both European Junior record holders. While obviously Keely has made that massive senior breakthrough, Max could still have his pretty soon and Jenny and Trevor are well placed to guide him through it. They also can learn from each other without being direct rivals.

      • Occasional Hope
        Occasional Hope commented
        Editing a comment
        Oh, very good news. They've done such a good job with Keely.

    • #79
      Thomas Randolph is now another name with real potential. 1:44.98 after a European U23 Bronze and a string of 1:46s.

      In terms of opportunities for the top men next year, 3 will go to the Worlds and I think likely a different 3 to the Euros, while I wouldn't be surprised to see athletes like Giles and Davis possibly going for the 1500m. It should be an exciting summer at least!

      Comment


      • #80
        Yes, Mystery Brick, it needs one of your metrics - as noted elsewhere, that is 7 men under 1.45, quite a milestone, with others you might have thought are capable (Wightman, Langord. Learmonth ) not even included.

        As I also wrote on another thread, with some judicious selection, all of the main protaganists can be involved in the major events. I do think Giles and Rowden, after their Olympic experience, are better placed to give a good account of themselves at the Worlds, and I would 'pencil in' Dustin for Europeans to build his ability to run rounds (the build up was tough on the young man) , and Burgin, hopefully fit and ready, let loose on the Commonweatlhs, then infill around that.

        I would like to see Pattison run a 400 before the end of the season, if only to rewrite his PB, as many have mentioned he has stepped up from this distance. I'm keen to find someone with a little extra 'endurance' for the first leg of project sub3...

        Comment


        • #81
          With the super spikes I’m not sure 1.45 is quite the landmark it once was, but still going very well - on SBs the 7 are all ranked from 9 to 47 in the world rankings which is pretty impressive depth. But now need one or two to start making proper dents in the champs.

          carterhatch. Knotweed. That is all. :-)

          Comment


          • LoveSprints1
            LoveSprints1 commented
            Editing a comment
            It's great but the world rankings are meaningless when Athing Mu the Olympic Champion, world lead, unbeaten over 800m this year is ranked fifth behind everyone she has dominated this year. The fact NCAA performances aren't included and that sub-par European events are, is a travesty.

            A Trinidadian Heptathlete - Tyra Gittens - ranked top 7 in the World prior to the Olympics on her NCAA performances (6418), was not ranked high enough on the IAAF system to achieve selection on their rankings. She went as a Long Jumper (could also possibly have gone for High Jump as has the World's highest Hep combination for the two events) and made the final, BUT the rankings system is a joke if Jemma can be above Keely and they are both ahead of Athing.

          • trickstat
            trickstat commented
            Editing a comment
            I think even before the super spikes, times in the men's 800 at world level are perhaps nearly a second quicker than they were in the early 80s. Sub 1:44 is probably about as commonplace these days as sub 1:45 was back then. I know Rudisha's WR is not 1 second faster than Coe's but the latter's times were in a class of their own at the time.

            LoveSprints1 - I believe that Ursus was referring to the 'traditional' world rankings of best performances rather than the WA rankings. However, I do agree that the latter are hugely flawed and favour athletes who are able to do lots of certain competitions. I have glanced at the rankings for the men's 800 and noticed that Guy Learmonth is ranked much higher than the likes of Dustin thanks to running in enough of these events. For me, they are not yet suitable for allocating so many places at Champs as they were for the Olympics this year.

        • #82
          One of the few things that football does better than athletics is to keep the fans informed of a player's health and fitness... when it comes to lower league leftbacks not even one ingrowing toenail goes unreported on some forum somewhere ... but to get any information on any athlete is nigh impossible.

          I mention this as I look at that mighty impressive list of sub 1.45 runners from 2021... now for what ever reason, 4 of the top 5 have not run indoors, which is a pity, Yes, I know it is a very busy and long season ahead but it would be nice to know why. Burgin for example, has he recovered from injury?

          Though Giles hasn't hit the heights of his remarkable 1.43, I suspect being a new father has had quite an impact, and some forum users have pointed to young Samuel Reardon as the next to watch. If all the protagonists are available it is going to be a very competitive event.

          Comment


          • MysteryBrick
            MysteryBrick commented
            Editing a comment
            I know that Dan Rowden is in some sort of shape as he ran a 15:25 Road 5k a couple of weeks ago - not lightning but given he absolutely seems to be an 800m specialist not too shabby.

        • #83
          You can say what you like about Giles, but he has raced 9 'finals' indoors this year and got 7 wins and 2 2nd places, in mostly good international fields. Now watch him come 4th at the World Indoors...

          Comment


          • #84
            Yesterday [31st May] I was going to write a post noting how this event [800] had 8 sub 1-45 perfomers thoughout 2021 [an extraordinary performance] yet so far in 2022 we hadn't had a single one. I thought this was a bit harsh, a little premature to be talking the demise of the event and deleted. Lucky for me, for the welcome return of Burgin with a sub 1-45 corrected this apparent anomoly.

            I presume Giles is injured? Any news? Dustin looks nothing like the runner of last season, I hope thats just a matter of timing his peak, and my own tip for UK number 1, Daniel Rowden is also yet to find his sub 1.45 form.

            On paper there seems others [Pattison, Staines, et al] in addition to the eight from last year that could go sub 1.45, it might therefore be, by the end of the season, we surpass that achievement of 2021. I do hope so ...
            Last edited by carterhatch; 01-06-22, 11:13.

            Comment


            • #85
              Rowden looked below par in Ostrava. Giles had what was said to be a minor injury indoors, but slightly worrying that we've heard nothing since.

              It is still early season, everything seems to have kicked off internationally much earlier than usual, maybe because the WCs are quite early.

              In the women's, of course we have Keely, but Jemma doesn't look great so far; Alex Bell has run one 800 so far, just outside 2m and just behind Jemma on this year's list. No sign still of Lynsey Sharp's return - and another near veteran, Shelayna Oskan Clarke hasn't run yet this year - has she retired?

              Comment


              • #86
                Giles is doing the 1500 in Hengelo

                Comment


                • carterhatch
                  carterhatch commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thank you, treadwater1...

                • jjimbojames
                  jjimbojames commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I don’t get this decision - nationally and internationally the 1500m is loaded, and EG almost made the OG final over 800m - an event that is wide open!

              • #87
                Originally posted by Occasional Hope View Post

                In the women's, of course we have Keely, but Jemma doesn't look great so far; Alex Bell has run one 800 so far, just outside 2m and just behind Jemma on this year's list. No sign still of Lynsey Sharp's return - and another near veteran, Shelayna Oskan Clarke hasn't run yet this year - has she retired?
                The Hodge is truly a blessing for British Athletics. What is ironic is that the likes of Adelle Tracey [PB in 1500, and got to love her smiling grimace] and Walcott-Nolan [DNF Ostrave according to Po10] saw a stacked 800 for selection for the coming seasons and sensibly moved up, only to find Reekie still recovering from illness, Bell running very lightly so far and Boffey not quite there yet & Muir high unlikely to race 800 at Worlds?

                If I were Tracey, given her fine form, I might just throw in a 800 and try and get the Worlds QT just to give the selectors soemthing to think about...

                Comment


                • #88
                  Given that Keely, Gemma and Alex all have the standard from either this year or last year then I think that's your most likely trio for the worlds and the europeans. Laura Muir could have something to say but may struggle to hit top form this season. Adelle could and should have a go at the 800 metres at the commonwealths. I think that her move to 1500 metres has gone better than hoped and I think a sub 4.00 is on the cards at some point this season. Alex Bell's move to 1500 metres has not gone so well thus far. She is also a bit slower at 800 metres this year than she was at the same time last year so I feel she may have fallen off a bit in the 800m in attempting to train for the 1500m. It may not be too late for her to switch back to the 800m in time for the trials and that may well be her plan anyway with a few early season 1500m to see how she is shaping up. Alex does not have the 1500m standards for the europeans , the worlds nor the commonwealths at this stage so the 800m is definitely the way forward. Just noticed there is only 23 days to the trials so we are probably past early season markers now.

                  Comment


                  • Ladyloz
                    Ladyloz commented
                    Editing a comment
                    We can actually send 4 to Eugene as Keely has the Wild card as Diamond League winner from last year.

                • #89
                  On the mens side we could see more of a changing of the guard. I think of the three selected last year Elliot Giles seems to be making a move up to 1500m, Daniel Rowden seems off the pace but his times are improving and Oliver Dustin is struggling in BMC meetings & again is improving. From a long way out I am going with Max Burgin, Thomas Staines and Ben Pattinson as the three most likely candidates. I think both Thomas and Ben are capable of getting the standards for the worlds and Ben has a really impressive finish in the races I have seen him in this year.

                  Comment


                  • carterhatch
                    carterhatch commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Re; Thomas Staines, some seasons back [2018] I'd convinced myself we had a genuine 400/800 type in the making, then he almost didn't for run 2/3 years [COVID, Injury, who knows], so good to see him return and another forum user think highly of him...

                  • MysteryBrick
                    MysteryBrick commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I absolutely see Ben Pattison running something in the 1:44s soon. He has run 3 outdoors races over 800m-1000m, won them all and run a PB in one of the 800s, he's ready to run quickly.

                    Rowden hasn't had the best of starts but has just run a 1:45 and he was 4th in Doha, which isn't a bad placing. Hopefully it is a case of timing his peak right.

                  • Sprintfan
                    Sprintfan commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Frankly Stained is an unknown quantity. A Good PB time
                    1:45.28 earlier this year, but I think he has no Championship experience at all.....and that counts for a lot in 800's

                • #90
                  Originally posted by Occasional Hope View Post
                  Rowden looked below par in Ostrava. Giles had what was said to be a minor injury indoors, but slightly worrying that we've heard nothing since.

                  It is still early season, everything seems to have kicked off internationally much earlier than usual, maybe because the WCs are quite early.

                  In the women's, of course we have Keely, but Jemma doesn't look great so far; Alex Bell has run one 800 so far, just outside 2m and just behind Jemma on this year's list. No sign still of Lynsey Sharp's return - and another near veteran, Shelayna Oskan Clarke hasn't run yet this year - has she retired?
                  It is relativelyearly in the season, but athletes knew that the WC were several weeks earlier than usual. I said it before so i will repeat; a lot of our athletes on the track will do better after the WC than before. In addition British competitors get 3 bites of the cherry this year and there are those in my view that will be happy to compete at their best in mid to late August and will find it a little easier to compete in Birmingham and Munich.

                  Comment


                  • jjimbojames
                    jjimbojames commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Being CWG or Euro Champion is likely to bring more rewards (sponsorship etc) than just missing a WC final - neither gets you on UK Sport funding, either!

                  • trickstat
                    trickstat commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Remember also that we have another WC in Europe next year which may make many athletes feel they are not missing out too much if they don't make Eugene.
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