UK 800m - state of play

[philipo]

Hmmm... In the men's 800m, with Max Burgin is the field, its unlikely that it'll be a trot around and last lap burn up kinda race.

And in the women's 800m, Keely H has the strength and determination to take out from the gun too, but has the confidence and basic 400m speed to prevail in a slow, championship-type race too.

It'll be a hell of a Trials for the middle distances, that's for sure.

and a few nasty surprises i fear; whatever, after the Trials there is likely to be the usual mad dash round Europe for a top 32, 48 etc Ranking position; the standards for auto q is a tough one for sure.
What might be strange if the meetings between our Trials and GB final selection the Covid foreign rules may prevent some of the athletes from certain countries, perhaps.
Will we have a vibrant exchange of views if an athlete outside the top two in Trials, but who hasn't got an AutoQ but scrapes into the Rankings list does not get selected; i think that could happen if I have not forgotten the GB selection procedure.

[Ladyloz]

The bulk of the team will be selected on 28th June and the cut off for qualifying is 29th so I don't think there will be any mark chasing post trials

[RunUnlimited]

Good outing for Rowden in the Doha 800m, 1:44.60 and the Olympic qualifying standard in his first race of the year. Ran it aggressively and managed to hang on for 3rd place behind Kinymal and Rotich.

[MysteryBrick]

You would take that as an opener. If he stays fit he makes the Olympics, such a classy runner.

[LuckySpikes]

Yes, the mid-distances are shaping up nicely for the trials!

...
Will we have a vibrant exchange of views if an athlete outside the top two in Trials, but who hasn't got an AutoQ but scrapes into the Rankings list does not get selected; i think that could happen if I have not forgotten the GB selection procedure.

In most events, due to British Athletics' selection policy regarding World Rankings invitations, there's very little scope for British athletes to qualify via that route.

See my post at https://forum.athleticsweekly.com/fo...8178#post28178

[MysteryBrick]

It appears European Junior Champ Oliver Dustin has just run 1:45.7 or so at the BMC Grand Prix in Sportcity, beating Kyle Langford. Great run, and suggests Langford's chances of going to Tokyo are very slim indeed.

[Christy93]

Dustin has real gears too, looks a proper championship racer. Wouldn't write him off at trials, obviously needs the time though.

[MysteryBrick]

If I'm Dan Rowden/Elliot Giles I'm praying Max Burgin is in the final at the UK Champs and that he takes it out, as otherwise the last 200m is going to be a total mess.

[Christy93]

Ian Hodge tweeted that Ethan Hussey, still a junior in 2022, has set a 3s PB of 1.46.78 in his first 800 since July 2019.

We have some incredible senior depth with Rowden, Webb, Giles, Learmonth, Kerr and Wightman now, but I think the kids coming behind them might be a bit of a special crop.

With Burgin absent, Dustin, Pattison and McLear absolute dominated Euro U20s in 2019, and all four look to be continuing where they left off pre-covid. Throw in the likes of Botterill, Lay, Copeland and Bizimana and what a decade we look to have ahead of us!

[carterhatch]

Do you think anyone of them might be able to run a decent first leg on the 400 relay? Just asking for a friend ,,,

[MysteryBrick]

Burgin could run something ridiculous in a 400m split, but possibly not on first.

[trickstat]

Pattison has certainly got some 400 pedigree. For what it's worth I do think that Cameron Chalmers can do a fairly decent job on the first leg.

[RunUnlimited]

As much as we (quite rightly) go on about the "Golden Era" of men's middle distance running in Great Britain that lasted pretty much from the late 50's through to the end of the 1980's when Coe's and Cram's bodies just couldn't keep up with their ambitions any more (though Peter Elliot was still a force into the early 90's and Curtis Robb's 4th place in the 1991 800m final was a fine result) - what we are seeing currently from the 800m-1500m men AND the women, in terms of the sheer strength in depth not just in the senior ranks but also from a succession of brilliant juniors too, is something that has *never* been seen here in this country before I believe.

As Christy93 rightly points out, back in 2019 when Max Burgin was all set to continue his -then amazing season into the European U20's, he was laid low by a injury just a couple of weeks before and couldn't compete. No problem, UKA were spoiled with who they pick from seeing as the 8 of the top 10 fastest athletes after Burgin were all BRITISH! And when it came down to it, Dustin, Pattison and McLear smashed the opposition in the final to make it a GB clean sweep. And in the women's 800m, Boffey easily won the gold ahead of junior level medal hauler Delia Sclabas, while then-17 year old Keely Hodgkingson added a bronze to the Euro U18 gold she'd won in 2018.

And they have continued to develop and gain experience since then, even with the Covid disruption last year. Now its going to be a truly crowded field come the Trials and I'm looking forward to seeing what transpires. If (and that's a big "if") things go wrong for the likes of Burgin and Keely, they are *still* eligible for the World or Euro U20 Champs this year, and would be distinct medal contenders there

[carterhatch]

When I started this thread back in 2019, I noted how 'in 2015 there were just two UK male runners who recorded 1.45.XX' ... the turn around has been nothing short of astonishing. Is it comparable to the 'Golden Era'? I have to say not yet, Coe, Ovett and Cram, were winning world titles and breaking records, that still survive to this day, but it is a very exciting period and I am looking forward to further progression. The men's and women's 800 at trials are going to be highlights.

Now can someone please do the same for men's 400!!

[RunUnlimited]

When I started this thread back in 2019, I noted how 'in 2015 there were just two UK male runners who recorded 1.45.XX' ... the turn around has been nothing short of astonishing. Is it comparable to the 'Golden Era'? I have to say not yet, Coe, Ovett and Cram, were winning world titles and breaking records, that still survive to this day, but it is a very exciting period and I am looking forward to further progression. The men's and women's 800 at trials are going to be highlights.

Now can someone please do the same for men's 400!!

Yeah, until the likes of Burgin, Hodkingson, or Giles are able to walk up to an Olympic or World Championship podium, then Coe, Ovett, Cram, Elliot, etc will still have the edge over them. But the fact that there are so many British athletes now running decent times *and* winning races, or at least running better tactically, bodes well for the future of middle distance running in this country - especially when you point out how parlous the choice was as recently as 2015.

The men's 400m? Oooof is all I can say. It's like the early 2000's all over again, after the Thomas, Black, Richardson, Redmond, Baulch era ended and there was a derth of readily available talent to fill the yawning gap. Only the all too brief Tim Benjamin years (really just 2 or 3 years before he gave up on the sport) in the mid-2000s gave any indication of any hope until the emergence of Martin Rooney and MHS... and to be perfectly honest, Rooney, in my opinion, wasted his obvious physical talents and never really reached the level of performance I believed he could achieve, especially when you see some of those relay legs he's become most well known for.

[mattrh17]

If they all turn up, the start lists for the men’s and women’s 800m in Hengelo next weekend include:

Men: Burgin, Giles, Rowden, Langford and Learmonth.
Women: Muir, Reekie, Hodgkinson and Tracey

Should be a nice warm-up for the trials if they all show up.

Lots of other Brits taking part including DAS v Schippers, MHS, Coppell, Lav Nielsen, Wightman, Grice, Copeland, Neita, Liverpool, King and A Chalmers.

[MysteryBrick]

I don't think DAS vs Schippers counts as a contest any more...

[treadwater1]

Just saw a snippet of Dustin’s race on the BMC insta page, his last 50 was excellent. Another one to keep an eye on

[MysteryBrick]

Things I did *not* see happening: Oliver Dustin running 1:43.82 today!!!!

Absolutely incredible run.

[MysteryBrick]

It's official - with Joshua Lay running 1:45.99 today it is the first year GB have ever had 10 men under 1:46 - previous best ever was 1:46.08 for 10th in 2019 (which was Spencer Thomas, who ended up winning the UK Champs that year!) and before that 1:46.13 back in 1988. And given 11th-18th have all run under 1:47 and two of them have previously run 1:44 (Langford and Learmonth), I would be it will end up being more than 10...

[trickstat]

Yes while neither Langford or Learmonth are exactly pulling up trees at the moment I wouldn't rule out at least one of them running 1:45 something sometime this year.

I seem to recall that in 1988 there were 50 British athletes under 1:50. I remember in the early 2000s that seemed like a very distant age, and I remember we had the odd athlete making trials finals before they'd broken 1:50. I've just checked and there were 50 under 1:50 in 2019

[MysteryBrick]

Yup - 1988, 50th was 1:49.83, in 2019 it was 1:49.90. Thus far at 39 under 1:50 and I am almost certain the number will hit over 50 this year.

[MysteryBrick]

4 days later and the number is now already 45...

[MysteryBrick]

If you want one stat to show just how healthy British men's 800m running is at the moment it is this:

More different U23 men (13 - 11 U23 and 2 U20) have broken 1:48 in 2021 than British men in total in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 or 2016...

[Sprintfan]

And whats the news on Thomas Staines? Son of Gary Staines and Linda Keogh

[RunUnlimited]

And whats the news on Thomas Staines? Son of Gary Staines and Linda Keogh

A solitary 800m race at Charlottesville (yeah *that* Charlottesville) USA on May 1st this year, coming in 7th and running 1:51.20. He didn't run at all last year, though considering what happened last year, that is likely understandable.

[MysteryBrick]

His Instagram suggests he is training (sponsored by Under Armour): https://www.instagram.com/staines800m/?hl=en

[Ursus]

So Dustin, a bloke who wouldn’t even have been a household name in his own broom cupboard until a few days ago takes Coe’s U23 NR (he’s still only 20) and now sits top of the world rankings. Many congrats to him and I hope he enjoys his moment in the sun.

I’m not even going to attempt to rationalise some of what we’ve been seeing on the track recently. Suffice to say that we’re either in an era of prodigious talent (talking generally, not just 800m) or there’s a full body swimming costume moment coming on. Tech and progress is all good, but performances have to be recognisable (for me, anyway).

[MysteryBrick]

In terms of British 800m running, I think we are broadly in the former, and the pandemic (and the year away from racing etc.) has thrown in a curveball too. Take Dustin, for example. He absolutely has the credentials - smooth improvement curve, double English Schools Champion, European Junior Champion, 1:46.8 as a Junior. We don't get many of those. If he had then gone 1:45.2 last year, then 1:43.8 this year, it looks like the traditional pathway of a very talented middle distance runner. The year gap from last year just makes things look weirder.

[Christy93]

Agree MysteryBrick. I'm a big follower of swimming, as I was an age grouper many moons ago, and we saw similar this year - Athletes are effectively coming out with 2 winters hard work to show off. That, combined with technological advances, explains a lot. I also think it was pretty clear in 2019 that we were on the cusp of a golden generation of middle distance runners.