UK 800m - state of play

[sprintdude]

Langford gets the nod for Doha

[larkim]

Let's hope he and Webb end up rooming together...

[Sovietvest]

Langford was extremely fortunate not to be disqualified from his heat at the British championships, there is a clip doing the rounds, but it was a blatant push on McCarthy. Cram and Paula Radcliffe must know this. They were being slightly disingenuous with their talk last weekend of an athlete being reinstated at the behest of Yates, the decision would have been made by the race officials, who were very generous in letting Langford run. That said the way the whole thing has played out in the media is unsavoury, the piece in the telegraph today was written by the Daily Mail hack Lawton and timed to have maximum effect on the selectors meeting today. Langford has done himself no favours but remains a huge talent

Lawton is also the journo who got quotes off Yates about how Cram should resign from the BBC and his Nike associations if he wanted to be UKA Chair. Yates was also applying for the job. I recall Yates crossing the line between good natured banter and disrespect when talking about 'Old Man' Cram at the end of his career.

Re: the Trials, I've watched the heat and FWIW (I am a L1 - i.e. lowest level Track Judge and I run 800s myself), I would not have DQ'd Langford. He was going for a very narrow gap on McCarthy's inside but McCarthy (who was already tying up badly) seems to lean into him as he comes past. Given the difference in their size and levels of fatigure, Langford's push looked worse than it was. Had he done that to Giles or Learmonth he wouldn't have made an impression. As an 800m runner you know that if you leave a gap in a tight race, someone will come up on your inside and if we DQ'd everyone in that situation we' end up with people asking to run the race in lanes.

Meanwhile Langford says Yates for some time has been giving him verbal abuse on warm-up tracks and stepping in front of him whilst doing strides.

Clearly Kyle is no angel and not the brightest but I'm delighted he's been selected and would place money on him outperforming Giles and Webb.

[larkim]

Where did you track down the 800m heat? I saw Mark Hookway's video on youtube, but thought that the BBC iplayer coverage stopped just before the 800m heats took place (end of day 1). Would like to see it closer, as the Hookway video taken from the opposite side of the arena looked like a very significant "bump" which to the innocent eye seemed mroe than just a "coming through..." move.

Yates seems loved and adored in some areas, and less so in others. He definitely has an anti-establishment outlook, and characterises just about everyone in UKA, especially their MD setup, as incompetent. And if you're associated with Nike, you're the scum of the earth it seems. There's some validity in what he believes / says, but if he operates in a nasty way in person with Langford etc, that's not acceptable on any level. Though I've just Langford's word for that from your post SV, s there might yet be more to it.

[Sovietvest]

Hi Larkim. Yes - I'm looking at the youtube video. For me the crucial thing is that the contact comes after Langford has drawn level. When an athlete goes for a gap that isn't there, contact is made from behind. There's an offending pull or push with the hand in those circumstances. What we se is a very firm shoulder barge that happens after McCarthy finds himself in a sandwich between the guy moving up on his outside and Langford. Whether McCarthy chooses to try and block Langford or is pushed into him by the guy on the outside is hard to see but I am convinced Langford was moving legitimately into a gap. Now, you could argue Langford pushes him too forcefully but in an 800m race being run that fast (the kick had started) any contact can look worse than it is, especially when one of the athletes is already struggling with the pace as McCarthy was. Langford would argue he was preventing himself being pushed off the track. (I was an apologist for Steve Ovett back in the day too - but he did far worse things to East Germans ;-) ).

[sidelined]

Larkim, the BBC programme that was on the red button immediately after the trials finished showed that 800 heat. I'm not sure if it's on iPlayer. I wish I hadn't deleted it now.

[MysteryBrick]

I thought it was worth revisiting this exactly one year later - even in this incredibly short season GB have 4 male 800m runners under 1:45, which is the first time this has happened since 1988 (by my calculations), with another 7 runners under 1:47. Max Burgin looks like a generational talent, and seeing how he handles this weekend will be interesting viewing. There are a lot of really good U20s/U23s around (Piers Copeland, Alex Botterill, Ben Pattison, George Mills etc.) and Dan Rowden especially excites me, returning from a year out to beat some class athletes last weekend.

Looking very rosy indeed.

[drobbie]

burgin is injured

[Occasional Hope]

Not again! This is starting to be a pattern.

[Ursus]

Very encouraging indeed. Wightman has also gone sub 1.45.

But to make any real marks on the world stage they’ll have to go maybe a full second faster.

[treadwater1]

4 men into the 1.44s this season, that goes up to 7 if you include Jamie Webb’s PB from last year and Learmonth’s & Wightmans from 2018. There should be an asterisk against a few of those runs when athletes set quick times in rabbited Diamond league races. The difference this year is that they’ve been asserting themselves in races more, Rowden and Giles both recording wins. Kyle Langford looked awful the other night but he positioned himself much better in that Diamond League run in Monaco, which he hasn’t done in the past.

I thought Copeland and Lay would be more the 1500 type, but they’re both strong over the 8 as well, Copelands finish last week in Gothenburg was impressive

Last year we took gold, silver and bronze at the European u20s with Burgin out injured and Spencer Thomas took silver at the u23s, it will be extremely tough to make the final at next years trials

[RunUnlimited]

4 men into the 1.44s this season, that goes up to 7 if you include Jamie Webb’s PB from last year and Learmonth’s & Wightmans from 2018. There should be an asterisk against a few of those runs when athletes set quick times in rabbited Diamond league races. The difference this year is that they’ve been asserting themselves in races more, Rowden and Giles both recording wins. Kyle Langford looked awful the other night but he positioned himself much better in that Diamond League run in Monaco, which he hasn’t done in the past.

I thought Copeland and Lay would be more the 1500 type, but they’re both strong over the 8 as well, Copelands finish last week in Gothenburg was impressive

Last year we took gold, silver and bronze at the European u20s with Burgin out injured and Spencer Thomas took silver at the u23s, it will be extremely tough to make the final at next years trials

Well. it's taken the best part of 35 years or so, but finally it seems, GB have some half-decent talent in the 800m (on the male side in particular). I agree with your point about how a few of the sub-1:45 times recorded recently should be viewed with caution considering they were run in paced races (I'm looking at you Learmonth!), but there has defintely been a subtle change in attitude to racing that hasn't been seen in a long time in our middle distance runners. As you mention, you're seeing more of these 800m/1500m runners either trying to take things out from the front, asserting themselves on the field (ala Burgin), or they are trying to get into better position when it matters most if it's a slower run race... and with Rowden, Giles and Wightman, showing that they have some more than decent finishing speed too.

It's a shame that the 2020 season was hijacked by COVID.... the winter season was already showing many of our middle distance runners in fantastic form heading into what should have been Olympic year. I just hope and pray that come 2021 that a), Covid-19 is a thing of the recent past (or at the very least, controlled enough that sporting events and life in general are not *too* affected by it, and b), that all of these athletes can continue this form into the following season.

[gghurdler]

An impressive feat by Rowden today, beating a 3.29 1500 man in Wightman who is in the form of his life. I felt the BBC commentators misjudged it in the build up, devoting most of their attention to JW, I thought Rowden stood more of a chance than they gave him credit for. He said in interview afterwards he is looking to win a medal at next years Olympics, you can’t fault his ambition. He interviewed very well, he seems as relaxed off the track as on it. The big question is who will be the one to progress to the low 1.44 or 1.43 needed to be a contender on the world stage?

Good battle in the women’s 800, Hodgkinson has moved above Boffey in the peaking order in my opinion despite being the younger off the two and being on the receiving end in a few of their battles, including last years European juniors

[MysteryBrick]

Another cracking win by Rowden yesterday, beating a top field including Wightman, Giles, Tuka, Kramer, Vazquez and World #2 Hoppel. I'd go so far as to say that if there were a global championship next weekend, I would be surprised if he wasn't at least top 5, and if he has a good winter could be a real Tokyo medal hope.

[trickstat]

He now ranks =9th on the UK all-time list together with a certain Mr Ovett. Hopefully, it's just a staging post, especially as you often need to run fast times in champs 800s.

[philipo]

Well. it's taken the best part of 35 years or so, but finally it seems, GB have some half-decent talent in the 800m (on the male side in particular). I agree with your point about how a few of the sub-1:45 times recorded recently should be viewed with caution considering they were run in paced races (I'm looking at you Learmonth!), but there has defintely been a subtle change in attitude to racing that hasn't been seen in a long time in our middle distance runners. As you mention, you're seeing more of these 800m/1500m runners either trying to take things out from the front, asserting themselves on the field (ala Burgin), or they are trying to get into better position when it matters most if it's a slower run race... and with Rowden, Giles and Wightman, showing that they have some more than decent finishing speed too.

It's a shame that the 2020 season was hijacked by COVID.... the winter season was already showing many of our middle distance runners in fantastic form heading into what should have been Olympic year. I just hope and pray that come 2021 that a), Covid-19 is a thing of the recent past (or at the very least, controlled enough that sporting events and life in general are not *too* affected by it, and b), that all of these athletes can continue this form into the following season.

Pleasing indeed, as i have been waiting forever for a slew of impressive young guys to assert themselves in the middle distances. Who amongst them has the genuine lasting , consistent talent at global level is going to be fascinating to watch next year.

[Stew-Coach]

Mightly impressed with male and female MD running lately tbh, very positive

[LuckySpikes]

Another cracking win by Rowden yesterday, beating a top field including Wightman, Giles, Tuka, Kramer, Vazquez and World #2 Hoppel. I'd go so far as to say that if there were a global championship next weekend, I would be surprised if he wasn't at least top 5, and if he has a good winter could be a real Tokyo medal hope.

Yep, Rowden is the real deal! Never looks stressed. I just hope he can stay injury-free because, after 30 years of bright hopes who've never kicked on and really delivered, I think we've got one here who's going to buck that trend.

[gghurdler]

Another cracking win by Rowden yesterday, beating a top field including Wightman, Giles, Tuka, Kramer, Vazquez and World #2 Hoppel. I'd go so far as to say that if there were a global championship next weekend, I would be surprised if he wasn't at least top 5, and if he has a good winter could be a real Tokyo medal hope.

It will be interesting to see where our runners fit into the global picture next season. Men’s 800 is a changing event at present, it looks like the Rudisha years are coming to an end, I know he is attempting a comeback for the Olympics but it will be difficult for him to challenge Brazier. There is a nucleus of promising athletes in their early 20s, in Arop, Hoppel, Murphy, Vasquez and Korir, who could be fixtures in finals over the next few years. Rowden looks every but as good as them

[philipo]

Yep, Rowden is the real deal! Never looks stressed. I just hope he can stay injury-free because, after 30 years of bright hopes who've never kicked on and really delivered, I think we've got one here who's going to buck that trend.

it may be putting the mockers on any of our athletes talking about the real deal.!!