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  • I am just so sad

    Comment


    • trevorp
      trevorp commented
      Editing a comment
      I understand this sentiment but we should be glad whenever dopers are caught.

  • I don’t know why big teams don’t just test all their athletes before departing, as part of the process - at least people wouldn’t sacrifice other’s medals. I really hope his B sample comes back negative 😬😢

    Comment


    • trickstat
      trickstat commented
      Editing a comment
      I think most UK athletes are testing regularly enough that they would have had a test quite close to leaving for the champs. There's also the possibility of an athlete taking something like a supplement while in the training camp.

  • The relay knotweed strikes again.

    Assuming the B sample is consistent CJ will deserve everything that’s coming his way if he’s cheated or been stupid - everyone knows the rules. You feel very sorry for the others but all teams operate on the basis of collective responsibility and are only as strong as their weakest link.

    Losing a silver will be bad, but losing a gold would have felt a whole lot worse.

    Comment


    • Disappointed for the rest of the team but little sympathy for him. Even if it were to turn out to be a case of a supplement with wrong ingredients of similar, athletes need to be 100% sure before they take anything. Risks are too great to do otherwise.

      Comment


      • larkim
        larkim commented
        Editing a comment
        I agree with this. *However* what are the practical steps an athlete can take to ensure that there is no contamination in a supplement? I agree with strict liability, but even if supplements are bought from reputable suppliers if there is something untoward with a supplement's ingredients due to a mix up at a factory how can an athlete protect themselves against that (if we put aside the suggestion "don't use supplements" as impractical)? Is it simply that they have to rely on the CAS process to be clear in stating that they are not at fault, even though under strict liability they all have to accept that a sanction can come their way without fault on their part?

      • Ladyloz
        Ladyloz commented
        Editing a comment
        larkim Athletes are generally advised if they do take supplements to ensure they are batch tested. This has been the case for some time.

      • larkim
        larkim commented
        Editing a comment
        Ladyloz - yes, but even then they are putting faith in a batch process which they have no control over. It's fine to retain 1 in the box of 20 supplement tablets each time as evidence too, but even then the strict liability would mean they are bang to rights if a substance is found; so in Ujah's case, the silver medal would be gone no matter whether he was at fault or not.

    • What does Ostarine do to the body?
      Early research shows that taking ostarine can increase lean body mass by a small amount in cancer patients who seem to be losing weight. Age-related muscle loss (sarcopenia). Early research shows that taking ostarine can increase lean body mass by a small amount in elderly adults.

      S-23 increased bone mineral density and lean mass but reduced fat mass in a dose-dependent manner. This is the first study to show that a selective androgen receptor modulator combined with EB is an effective and reversible regimen for hormonal male contraception in rats.

      This is taken from the internet. These are drugs that someone has obviously advised him that will improve his performance and as far as cross-contamination - has that ever worked for anyone in recent times since the testing has become so accurate as it was in this case to expose him. I wonder if he will come out with an explanation otherwise several people will have to provide explanations. I am not sure why some people make statements suggesting that they cannot believe it and that this athlete does not seem the type or that he seemed consistent. Chambres, Witherspoon and that group for example were all sub 10-second runners but they obviously need to go faster. I seem to recall reading that one had $330k owed to him by the IAAF just for some races irrespective of the other earning and sponsorship money and in the USA their Nike deals dwarf the deals they give UK and European athletes. Thye have a short life span for making big money so the temptation is big for these sprinters especially. In the UK they get endorsements, lottery and race money which can easily lead to 6 figures for an average world-class sprinter so it is worth it to some people. I would also not bet on the B sample being any different either as that is unheard of. Finally, athletics is an individual sport and is easier for people to justify their cheating -ie they are not harming anyone else but themselves.. but n this case they were, as it was relay. Chambres was forgiven by all his other relay team when he lost them their medals apart from one sprinter if I remember correctly but cant remember the name. I wonder if these three men will be so forgiving as this guy I assume was their friend. I can't see any situation where the team will not lose their medals now.

      Comment


      • JamieSLA
        JamieSLA commented
        Editing a comment
        I think it was Darren Campbell that took exception to Chambers, could be wrong.

      • LoveSprints1
        LoveSprints1 commented
        Editing a comment
        It was Darren Campbell.

      • Occasional Hope
        Occasional Hope commented
        Editing a comment
        Not surprising really - Darren had already lost an Olympic title to someone we're pretty sure was doping in Sydney.

    • You’d normally expect someone doping to make decent/big improvements - otherwise, why take them? CJ hasn’t run his quickest times, didn’t make the final at the OG etc - he’s right where he’s always been. If he intentionally doped, he’s paid money and lost future earnings for very little return!

      Comment


      • So you are doubting the veracity of his positive test?

        Comment


        • You asked why people assume someone is a less likely candidate - I explained. If he has actively doped (there is always a chance of a contaminated supplement - although athletes still have strict liability) I’m saying either the drugs don’t work or he didn’t get the amounts right, as he hasn’t seen any improvement this year compared to his past record….in which case, why bother, given he’s now been caught and other more obvious-looking candidates have passed the tests

          Comment


          • Originally posted by jjimbojames View Post
            You asked why people assume someone is a less likely candidate - I explained. If he has actively doped (there is always a chance of a contaminated supplement - although athletes still have strict liability) I’m saying either the drugs don’t work or he didn’t get the amounts right, as he hasn’t seen any improvement this year compared to his past record….in which case, why bother, given he’s now been caught and other more obvious-looking candidates have passed the tests
            CJ didn't run particularly well in Tokyo but in May/June he had his best form for a few years, since 2017 I'd say. He had some injury issues (he missed 2019 worlds) - perhaps a case of cutting corners coming back from injuries? The last high(ish) profile British athlete I remember getting caught was Nigel Levine when he was attempting to make a comeback after that motorbike crash.

            CJ would also have been aware that were he not to make the team for Tokyo, his funding would have been at risk etc. and any sponsorship he has.

            Obviously I don't know any more than anybody else what's gone on but there are incentives to dope beyond winning medals and running super quick times too.

            Comment


            • Grassmarket
              Grassmarket commented
              Editing a comment
              This is very true, actually. Have a look at Uk Sports doping list sometime. It is never well-known names in any sport. It’s always second-rate rugby players, boxers with losing records, third division cyclists etc etc. Guys just hanging on by their fingernails to status of “Professional Athletes”

          • Originally posted by Ladyloz View Post
            ... there are incentives to dope beyond winning medals and running super quick times too.
            True - remember Bernice Wilson who gorged on stuff to take her to the giddy heights of 11.57/23.77.

            Comment


            • trickstat
              trickstat commented
              Editing a comment
              That was particularly pointless. However, they did seem to have an effect as, at the age of 24 having been competing in the sport since she was about 13, she hadn't broken 12 seconds.

          • Ujah’s apparently already said to British Athletics that he doesn’t know how the drugs got in his system.

            Which may be true. But we’ve heard all this before so many times and if it was an American for instance we’d pretty much all be saying “yeah, whatever”.

            Comment


            • jjimbojames
              jjimbojames commented
              Editing a comment
              Absolutely, but I do think it’s harder to be as distant when people remember athletes coming up the ranks, train with / race against them etc - and it’s really rare for British athletes to be caught, so it’s less of a “oh, another one” etc.

              Interesting responses on Twitter, with some athletes silent, some backing him. General population seems to be livid for the other relay boys or people from other countries berating the “Brits Don’t Dope” mentality. Ironically, some saying it’s because Brits are protected, when it’s a Brit that’s been caught!

            • Occasional Hope
              Occasional Hope commented
              Editing a comment
              He's the most high profile British athlete to be positive since Dwain Chambers.

          • Does anyone know how long this stuff stays in the body? I'm wondering when he would have consumed it. The team had already been in Japan for - what - three weeks or so.

            I'm finding this extremely depressing, whatever the true story is.

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            • Sad whether it was deliberate or otherwise as I've always thought cj was anything but a doper, be interesting to see what the reason was when it unravels.
              I just hope we don't get fed alot of burrito bullshit or similar.

              Comment


              • I do think a supplement is at least possible as ostarine has a history of being found as an unheralded ingredient.

                Comment


                • But wouldn't 2 banned ingredients in the supplement be unlikely? Surely he wouldn't be the only person taking the supplement so wouldn't there be a plethora of positive cases?

                  Comment


                  • jjimbojames
                    jjimbojames commented
                    Editing a comment
                    CJ may be the only person with that batch that gets tested. Were all four athletes done for the same drug - could be a new test that’s now catching it, but if not, interesting to see what the others are saying (not saying that makes it true, but that was how the nandrolone issues caught notice, I think)

                  • SprintRelayFan
                    SprintRelayFan commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Nah, all 4 different things. Incidentally I’d completely missed Carina horn

                  • Occasional Hope
                    Occasional Hope commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Richard Kilty's brother says he will be devastated if it is proven: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/olym...edgdhp&pc=U531
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