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  • Originally posted by jjimbojames View Post
    To be honest, I think it probably shows how little impact T&F has in the US. ‘Major’ sports would avoid the scandal but there’s no real news outside of the Olympics for athletics
    Lol if you think that US sports would avoid scandal, you clearly don't watch US sports very often. As with almost any sport, money talks. If somebody can help you be more successful, they'll get a job somewhere. It takes a lot to become persona non grata.

    Also, whilst I would say that the US is pretty brazen about it, it's hardly uniquely American to have people involved in sport who have been involved in controversy previously! Again, sadly, money and success is the driver, the world over.

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    • Money talks, for sure - and agreed, it’s not just an American thing!

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      • What a classy comment...

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        • Originally posted by LuckySpikes View Post

          LOL, they have no shame in the US. A drugs ban? No problem, we're happy to give you a job coaching impressionable 19 year olds! Dennis Mitchell another example, appointed by USATF to coach the US relay squad!

          Imagine Linford Christie trying to get a coaching job at Loughborough. I don't think it would happen. Certainly he's persona non grata with UKA, getting refused accreditation and not getting invited to events.
          A little bit pot and kettle!. We (the UK) seem to have been pretty good at turning a blind eye to sexually abusive/ inappropriate behaviour and bullying and harassment and either ignoring or shifting the problem elsewhere. Plus we had an era of drug abuse allegedly condoned by some of the people running our sport.

          It's all awful and wrong, but we cannot point fingers unless looking in the mirror also!

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          • LuckySpikes
            LuckySpikes commented
            Editing a comment
            ?? But I was talking about a very specific issue with specific examples. The UK has NOT been complicit in employing athletes with drugs bans to such positions of authority.

        • Originally posted by LoveSprints1 View Post

          A little bit pot and kettle!. We (the UK) seem to have been pretty good at turning a blind eye to sexually abusive/ inappropriate behaviour and bullying and harassment and either ignoring or shifting the problem elsewhere. Plus we had an era of drug abuse allegedly condoned by some of the people running our sport.

          It's all awful and wrong, but we cannot point fingers unless looking in the mirror also!
          Lovesprints1 you are conflating two entirely different things. The rules on doping have been clear throughout the last few decades. As you say its awful and wrong because if doping was allowed free rein it would lead to the destruction of athlete's health and the sport itself. Society's reaction to bullying, harassment and sexually inapproprite behaviour has changed massively over the decades. Reaction to these and other forms of bad behaviour is always in flux and no doubt some things which are regarded as criminal today will lose that status only to be replaced by other objectionable behaviour according to the fashion and concerns of the time. One only has to think of the extreme changes in reaction to homosexuality and pedophilia which have taken place in my lifetime. All these things are in flux and who knows where we will be in another 50 years. Younger people may see these things as fixed and certain but they are not.

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          • Originally posted by marra View Post
            What a classy comment...
            Don't worry about "marilyn"/"philippo"/"jeremy" or whatever this turd's real name is. He's basically the George Galloway of this forum. An insane dunce whose relatives would probably rather hang themselves than to hang out with him.

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            • Originally posted by Pierre Johansson View Post
              Don't worry about "marilyn"/"philippo"/"jeremy" or whatever this turd's real name is. He's basically the George Galloway of this forum. An insane dunce whose relatives would probably rather hang themselves than to hang out with him.
              Whilst I think that his attacks on America/Americans were completely ridiculous, I'm not convinced the right response is to attack him personally either.

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              • Pierre Johansson
                Pierre Johansson commented
                Editing a comment
                Maybe you're right, but when he does this ALL THE TIME, and almost nobody tells him off (or threatens to ban him), I think it's time to fight fire with fire. He recently called a woman who's had severe bouts of anxiety and depression a "miserable [c-word]". Nobody did a thing. "Americans deserve it" seems to be the motto of this forum.

            • And on the subject of drugs, wasn't Ross Jnr banned for something to do with missing tests or similar, rather than a direct ban for a failed test like the Nigerian?

              Because if that is the case and if we're talking about missed tests being the same level of seriousness, we would have to say Christine probably shouldn't be coaching.

              Also, Linford was chosen as a "mentor" in the mid 2000s by UK Athletics - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/4910440.stm not to mention his own coaching, well after his drugs ban.

              For the record, I'm not saying that the issue in the UK is anywhere near as bad as it seems to be in the States, but I don't think our record of keeping those with known or suspected past issues with the drug process away from our athletes could be described as perfect.

              And that's not to mention the other issues Sprints rightly brings up. As I said earlier, money talks too often in sports ahead of strict morals, everywhere in the world. Some places are clearly better/worse than others but I don't think any country escapes its clutches entirely, us included.

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              • Pierre Johansson
                Pierre Johansson commented
                Editing a comment
                The fact that she's Nigerian British just like you has nothing to do with your opinion on this subject, I'm sure. If an American missed 3 tests in 8 months and was exonerated by USADA you'd be right there defending him/her.

                You didn't address the Linford Christie part of the post above...

                With all that said, I do believe there is a difference between tampering and missing 3 tests. Missing three tests is bad, tampering is terrible.

              • jjimbojames
                jjimbojames commented
                Editing a comment
                PJ - you can’t compare TBO in 2006 to the system now. TBO was essentially the test case, plus the British took it much more seriously than others in those days. Now - the global system takes it seriously and the system is easy for athletes to update - it’s tough to fail three times!

              • CoachDev
                CoachDev commented
                Editing a comment
                marra You do know that the missed 3rd test, was a deliberate missed test!
                She had left her place 5 min prior to the slot and when the testers arrived on the dot, they called her and told her they would wait the full hour and she chose not to return

                Well known by the staff at the time

                if she clean and above board. Her sister who just jumped the time is actually coached by her partner… drugs cheat and current banned athlete Italian Antonio Infandino
                Last edited by CoachDev; 07-09-22, 09:53.

            • Hope you already read what I wrote here. Asked to delete it



              jr was banned for technically tampering with the process

              sr btw sued Graham for grassing him up, good character
              Last edited by CoachDev; 06-09-22, 17:15.

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              • RunUnlimited - I find that any athlete missing 3 tests is somewhat suspect, frankly. That doesn't mean that I believe that Christine was on drugs but it would be entirely naive to rule it out entirely. Whether she was trying to miss tests or not we'll never know. The fact remains that she did miss them.

                And, frankly, it doesn't really matter under strict liability rules anyway. At best, you could reasonable say she was irresponsible with her whereabouts, and that kind of example isn't probably one we should be passing on.

                For the record, I'm playing something of devil's advocate here - I have *ZERO* problem with her coaching. Much like I have no problem with David Millar being involved in cycling despite being an admitted doper - he's done plenty to try and keep others from his path and own up to his past, and his knowledge of the sport is valuable.

                I was just responding the original idea that was being put forward which was that the US was some kind of immoral backwater where anything goes and money is everything, unlike the upstanding folks over in Blighty. There's good and bad everywhere, that's my central point. We're just talking degrees.

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                • Coach Dev,

                  Disappointing to hear that Victoria is associated with Infantino. I can't find details of which substances he took - do you know? I try to keep an open mind about athletes but associations with known dopers - either training partners or coaches- always sets alarm bells ringing. I couldn't get excited by Neita's PBs after Ujah's bust.

                  I've just re-read the written summary of Ohuruogu's Hearing. Your description of her third missed test: "She had left her place 5 min prior to the slot and when the testers arrived on the dot, they called her and told her they would wait the full hour and she chose not to return", is not what happened.

                  "2.10.
                  On 25 July 2006, a doping control offIcer went to Mile End Stadium, the declared location for Ohuruogu between 11am and 12 noon. Ohuruogu was not there. The offIcer waited for one hour and then filed a missed test report.
                  2.11.
                  Ohuruogu had planned to train at Mile End Stadium on that day, but at around 9.30am her coach telephoned her to say that he would have to train her at Crystal Palace Stadium instead because the facilities at Mile End Stadium were not available. Ohuruogu forgot to notify the change of schedule to the athletics authorities".

                  Hopefully this link works:
                  Christine Ohuruogu v. UK Athletics & IAAF, Award, 3 Apr 2007 (jusmundi.com)

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                  • MysteryBrick
                    MysteryBrick commented
                    Editing a comment
                    CoachDev, are you insinuating the report is false?

                  • Ladyloz
                    Ladyloz commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Sovietvest Daryll split with Ujah around 2019 so maybe unfair to drag her name in this regard. The Vicky O/Infantino thing was news to me though.

                    I do wonder what has been done if anything to investigate Ujah's coach at the time of his bust though Ryan Freckleton. He's now coaching NMB and Jeriel Quainoo. And we are still waiting for the full AIU verdict on Ujah.

                    This has long been a problem globally with anti doping. The athlete gets busted and seemingly little effort goes into investigating connections. Usually only the athlete gets punished but I am sure very few athletes dope on their own; there are always dodgy coaches/doctors/other medical staff/agents (delete as appropriate).

                  • Sovietvest
                    Sovietvest commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Ladyloz - thanks for that- I stand corrected on Ujah / Neita.

                • There is something to be said about this "We would never behave like those Americans!" mentality of so many Western Europeans (and other non-American Westerners). After Sha'Carri Richardson's "breakthrough" at the US Olympic Trials last year, the "athletics expert" at tax-funded Swedish Radio (SR) was appalled that she was coached by a former drugs cheat, Dennis Mitchell. Mind you, these are the same people who've made Vésteinn Hafsteinsson, the coach of last year's Olympic gold AND silver medalists in the discus (Ståhl and Pettersson), a national hero. And who is Vésteinn Hafsteinsson, you ask? Well, you guessed it - a former drugs cheat, who tested positive for Nandrolone at the 1984 Olympics. This is also a guy who gets very angry when you bring up his past... while always bragging about what a swell job he's done promoting a clean sport ever since.

                  I want to be clear that I do NOT have any respect for Dennis Mitchell and Sha'Carri Richardson. I'm just calling out the insufferable hypocrisy.
                  Last edited by Pierre Johansson; 07-09-22, 16:21.

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                  • FWIW, the new team at North Carolina appear to be distancing themselves from both the Rosses and Nwokocha: Grace Nwokocha, former sprinter in N.C. A&T track and field program, gets provisional suspension from Athletics Integrity Unit | Sports | greensboro.com

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                    • Has CJ’s ban length been confirmed yet please?

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                      • CoachDev
                        CoachDev commented
                        Editing a comment
                        SprintRelayFan delayed as he’s got a very good legal team

                        A big uk benefactor is helping

                      • Ladyloz
                        Ladyloz commented
                        Editing a comment
                        CoachDev Can you spill any more tea on the benefactor? He's a very lucky boy IMO if he's got someone willing to help pay his legal bills.

                      • SprintRelayFan
                        SprintRelayFan commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Thank you coachdev, very interesting

                    • Italy's Ahmed Abdelwahed, the Steeple silver medalist in Munich, has tested positive for meldonium.

                      This is the same drug that Maria Sharapova was banned for. From what I remember it's one of those drugs that allows you to train harder for longer.

                      Around the same time as Sharapova a few athletes were busted for it, including 1500m runner Abeba Aregawi (SWE) and 800m specialist Mirela Lavric (ROU).

                      It seems like the test was at the Euros so, in due course, expect Osama Zoghlami to be bumped up to silver and Dani Arce to bronze.​

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