shameful nonsense - transgender athletes to compete against women under new rules

[drobbie]

they are absolutely cheats

[Ladyloz]

Some of Ellington's tweets were problematic (and unrelated to this topic looking at his timeline, Jeez there is some conspiracy nonsense on there). Never warmed to him and this hasn't dissuaded me otherwise.

Having said that the complaint is pretty pointless given he hasn't been funded for years and his elite career is effectively over.

[Runner88]

Very well said

[marra]

Ellington is an example of what I was talking about though - He's absolutely fanning the flames by attacking people and calling them weasels for having a different POV from his, or thinking his word choice is not helping. Is it the worst language ever? No, obviously not. But is it somewhat dehumanising? Absolutely.

Who is helped by using language like that? How does it help the debate? All it does is make each side dig in. I've seen plenty of people make reasoned arguments against the proposed rules without that kind of language. Just because it isn't the WORST language we could use doesn't mean it is good.

Likewise, I don't think calling transwomen athletes "cheats" is right either, if they meet the parameters that are under the rules. It doesn't mean that people have to agree with what they are doing, but it isn't the same thing as cheating. If they DON'T meet the rules but try and take part, then that obviously would be cheating.

The fact that we might dislike the rules doesn't mean that they are breaking them. It means the rules need amending to fix the potential problem.

[Grassmarket]

Right. It’s not like anyone has ever lied to get wealth & fame, is it?

[drobbie]

james ellington gets a row for his tweets

https://twitter.com/Jellington100m/status/1624044909781975042

[drobbie]

The amusing thing about this is that transwomen have always been able to compete in the female category, and no transwoman has ever made a major championship podium. WA are actually making the current rules tougher, before you all start having hissy fits.

As for anyone who actually believes that a cis male would transition solely to win medals as a woman...really? Come on now, you obviously have no understanding of the extremely complex nature of gender dysphoria transgender people experience. You don't just transition on a whim.

transwomen have been able to compete in the female category since 2004, but this required a full sex change until 2016 which ruled out about 90% of transwomen who chose to keep their penis, so the first olympics all transwomen could compete in was last years one. even then many sports banned them from competing - athletics, triathlon, cycling for example, stop talking bollocks and do some actual research on the issue

i dont beleive that men tranistion to trans women for sport. the argument is being framed that way by you lot, as a strawman argument that you can attack, because you know if you tried to attack on the actual facts you would lose. i do beieive that every single one of them who choses to compete in womens sport is a cheat, there have been 17 peer reviewed scientific studies done on the subject of advantage and if it is removed by hrt , the unanimous conclusion is that males retain a massive unfair advantage due to male puberty, taking female hormones reduces this slightly in the first year or so, but after this it plateaus and doesnt decline any further, the longest study still confirming male advantage is 14 years.

[larkim]

The amusing thing about this is that transwomen have always been able to compete in the female category, and no transwoman has ever made a major championship podium. WA are actually making the current rules tougher, before you all start having hissy fits.

As for anyone who actually believes that a cis male would transition solely to win medals as a woman...really? Come on now, you obviously have no understanding of the extremely complex nature of gender dysphoria transgender people experience. You don't just transition on a whim.

I agree with the second part - I don't like that argument being framed that way, because whilst there are undoubtedly some men who choose to identify as female for subversive reasons, there's no evidence whatsoever that men are deliberating undergoing medical and surgical interventions to find easy access to winning female competition. (That said, the recent debacle of the non-binary category in the NYC Marathon does give something of an inkling that some people were endeavouring to subvert the category where a simple declaration was all that was required - unless I'm mistaken)
However, it doesn't matter one bit that no transwoman has made champs podiums or similar yet. It matters just as much if a natal woman finishes in 112th place rather than 111th place out of 576 participants because they are beaten by a natal male who has an inherent puberty-acquired advantage which cannot be undone.
It's not all about the podium spots, it's about every place that every woman seeks to achieve in a sporting context.
There are other aspects of the world about us where I will possibly have a very different view about where transwomen should fit in to existing spaces etc, but for sport for me it is 100% clear - if you go thorugh puberty as a male then you cannot undo the inherent advantage acquired, and as much as gender surgery or medication might take the edge off some of that advantage, there are somethings like muscle density and skeletal size that cannot be reversed. And therefore from a sporting point of view you should compete based on your birth biological sex, not your gender.

[Dundee42]

Watch out folks the bleeding heart brigade is here,

[Gabriella]

The amusing thing about this is that transwomen have always been able to compete in the female category, and no transwoman has ever made a major championship podium. WA are actually making the current rules tougher, before you all start having hissy fits.

As for anyone who actually believes that a cis male would transition solely to win medals as a woman...really? Come on now, you obviously have no understanding of the extremely complex nature of gender dysphoria transgender people experience. You don't just transition on a whim.

[Occasional Hope]

To be fair: (a) no onr has sued triathlon YET; and (b) fewer people do it.

[trevorp]

More here: Statement on UK Athletics' position on trans people’s participation in athletics | Equality and Human Rights Commission (equalityhumanrights.com)

[Grassmarket]

Agree. It is bureaucratic @rse-covering. But I expected less of them than that, so I’m awarding them 7.5.

[Laps]

It looked that way. He is probably having to use his political nous to win an internal battle in WA.

[sidelined]

There's an analysis of the legal position here:

https://sex-matters.org/posts/update...n-only-sports/