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THis is very disappointing. -
This is where unquestioning liberalism gets us. Here the rights of the many will get trampled over in favour of the "rights" of the few.
How long before we see the following "Women's" world records?
400m: 46.10
800m: 1:49.50
High Jump: 2.20
etc etcLast edited by LuckySpikes; 21-01-23, 13:56.Comment
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Agree Lucky Spikes. Our exceptionally tolerant society has been allowing some minorities to ride roughshod over the interests of the majority for a considerable time.
For me this World Athletic's problem stems from their approach to the 'science', comparing the performance of moderately talented 'biologically male' athletes eg Semenya with elite female athletes and being only able to prove limited performance advantage, demonstrably over few events. Consequently their confidence of winning in court quickly runs out. They succeeded with CAS but only to this limited extent. Rather than do the job properly they then stopped.
Obviously theirs is not the sensible way of making the comparison or amassing adequate data to establish a robust policy covering all women's events. A blanket ban has always been necessary. Without it women's athletics will always be under some threat from 'male' athletes in one guise or another.Last edited by Laps; 25-01-23, 11:41.Comment
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It is shocking and disgraceful that WA is throwing women's sport under the bus. I have every sympathy for boys/ girls/ men/women who feel they are living in the wrong gender, but If biologically born males (transwomen) want to compete, they should be able to do so only either as males or in an open category. Transwomen are not women. They are men who, rather than focus on redefining manhood, instead choose to appropriate and trample on womanhood. An active and vocal minority of them also suppress, troll and denigrate the opinions of any woman (or man) who speaks out against their right to be or compete as women.
Seb Coe and WA should be absolutely ashamed that they are ignoring the science, which they concede shows that reducing testosterone does not create a level playing field. Even after taking such drugs, biologically born males who have gone through puberty will retain enough strength, aerobic capacity, speed etc to dominate women's sport.
A woman is an adult human female. Women's sport should not be a retirement plan for mediocre male athletes.Comment
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What astonishes me is that WA, in the leaked consultation document, admit that transwomen retain physiological advantages (surprise, surprise) over females but still say their preferred option is to include transwomen in the female category! That's overt sex discrimination. It's been suggested that WA is terrified of expensive litigation if they don't concede to the trans lobby, but surely if they implement this policy they'd be open to a class action by women?
I really hope that more elite athletes speak out about the insanity of this policy.
Does anyone know how to email WA, as opposed to filling in their little contact form which doesn't guarantee a reply?Comment
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Hopefully the start of a flood of such responses.Comment
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Good for Amelia being brave enough to speak out. Emily Diamond and Jade Lally have publicly supported her. Male and female athletes and non-athletes need to raise their heads above the parapets and just stop this farcical hijacking of women's sport. If male sports and events were threatened, this would not even be discussed. It would have been stamped out immediately. It was bad enough when the Eastern bloc was doping and the number of records taken away from women by drugged women. Now, are we all going to stand by and let TW and DSD athletes (intersex males who at birth presented as female) steal from this generation?
Hopefully the start of a flood of such responses.Comment
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More power to Amelia's elbow! I got a response to my comments from World Athletics which just said that the proposal is only for consultation and no decision has been made yet. I suggest everyone writes to WA. Link here: ​
It's probably a good idea to write to UKA too, since they'll be responding to the consultation. I have, but no reply yet...Comment
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James Ellington’s recent tweets are a case in point of vile and abusive language being brought into all of this.
We all want a fair playing field for women in sport but this is getting increasingly ugly.
Think this is all about the female category being protected? Just look at his retweets in support of supposed ‘vulgar’ music videos by from Sam Smith. It’s a slippery slope towards open discrimination towards the LGBTQ+ community and what is considered ‘normal’ and ‘acceptable’.Comment
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hes called them weasels as far as i can tell, hardly the crime of the century -
I sympathise Runner88 with your suspicions that Ellington may hold some unpleasant views and I'm all for a respectful debate. But was what he said in this context really "vile and abusive"? Contrary to what's been alleged on Twitter he did not direct his comments at all trans women, just those seeking an unfair advantage in sport. I think biological female athletes who take testosterone are weasels. I also think Coe has behaved like a weasel. Have I just been vile and abusive or have I used strong language to express how much I hate cheats and the behaviour of a sporting politician?
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I don’t know how to put all my feelings into words on this issue at the moment and I think athletes like Amelia Strickler are doing the right thing and speaking up and I think - from what I have read so far - doing so in a way that is not hurtful towards trans athletes. But some of the people, views and languages that is being caught up in this is not nice to see.Comment
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I think it is perfectly reasonable to have serious doubts about WA's plans and to worry about the potential harm they will cause to women/women's sport AND also have concerns about the nature of some of the public discourse surrounding trans athletes and the LGBTQ+ community in recent times.
I have a decent amount of time for the position that Eilish outlines here - https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/64460705Last edited by marra; 02-02-23, 12:42.Comment
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tom daley his usual moronic self i seeComment
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All sports have to decide what is more important: inclusion or fairness. You simply cannot have both. They can no longer pretend that there is any doubt that trans women who have been through male puberty have an advantage over biological females, even after testosterone lowering medication has been taken. WA explicitly acknowledge in the document recently circulated that the advantage cannot be fully removed.
I can totally accept that some people sincerely believe that inclusion is more important than fairness. On that basis they will support the inclusion of trans women in athletics. I personally disagree strongly and think that is an anathema to the concept of sport. What I can't accept is when those in favour of trans women competing in women's event pretend that there is no proven advantage. I think that is disingenuous. I also cannot accept accusations of transphobia when someone speaks up in favour of biological women's right to compete fairly in sport.
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