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  • #31
    Great posts Soviet.
    Do you read or send on Letsrun. I read it every day to prove I must be a masochist!!
    A propos your comments about the americans, I have only had long chats with USA fans in Munich72, Stuttgart 93, and Tokyo 91.
    .I think they are majestically ignorant that there are other athletes around, apart from their own.Sad.
    Last edited by marilyn1; 10-08-22, 16:00.

    Comment


    • Sovietvest
      Sovietvest commented
      Editing a comment
      I generally avoid the Letsrun MB, Marilyn but think Jon Gault is the best athletics journalist around.

      The chants of "You Ess Ayy, You Ess Ayy!!!" in Atlanta and Eugene were a little disconcerting. Weirdly threatening and dare I say it almost fascist in tone?!?!?

      Generally the crowd in Eugene however were track fans and showed (quiet) appreciation of non-US athletes. Not like Atlanta, where any race won by a non-US athlete ended in almost total silence. In Birmingham the crowd cheered anything that moved. I loved hearing little kids pick out random countries to cheer before each race.

    • Sovietvest
      Sovietvest commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm heartily sick of Johnson constantly trumpeting world-leading approaches to this, that and the other as we become an increasingly second rate country. BUT when it comes to organising and appreciating big sporting events we are hands-down the best in the world.

  • #32
    Sovietvest - I think of the U-S-A chants as being the equivalent of the In-Ger-Land chants at football (Americans are not good at sports chants generally). Coupled with most of them genuinely loving their country and wanting to show pride in it. Parochial for sure but, when done at a sporting event, not intended to cause those feelings that you experienced.

    It's a lot more disconcerting when it is done at non-sporting events, for obvious reasons. That for me is when it gets those fascistic tones, if that makes sense?

    Comment


    • #33
      Any way, back on topic, here's the updates to the GB team - https://www.britishathletics.org.uk/...championships/

      Some we had figured out. A couple we hadn't including Gemili out. Sensible decision.

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      • #34
        Neither of the chalmers and neither said anything about it. Odd

        Comment


        • MysteryBrick
          MysteryBrick commented
          Editing a comment
          Chalmers senior is just in awful shape, so was likely dropped.

      • #35
        Cant help reflecting when I am watching our knackered swimmers this morning that they had worlds and last weeks CG and now EC, that we remember that our athletes have also had a hard month as well. Expectations should be tempered.

        Comment


        • Chafford1
          Chafford1 commented
          Editing a comment
          Might just help DAS though in the sprints given she missed the CGs, assuming her injury at the WCs has fully healed.

      • #36
        Originally posted by marilyn1 View Post
        Cant help reflecting when I am watching our knackered swimmers this morning that they had worlds and last weeks CG and now EC, that we remember that our athletes have also had a hard month as well. Expectations should be tempered.
        Would add something as a runner whose sisters were both swimmers: The way swimmers train and taper is quite different and far harder to 'hold'. Imo performance of swimmers also deteriorates far quicker, and it's to do with their taper more than exhaustion. A missed taper in swimming is catastrophic for their performance.

        For added context: It is not abnormal for swimmers to hold a taper for a month (the Americans always do it for Olympics!), and when done well it can been beneficial. British T&F athletes *should* be able to hold their taper from worlds through to Europeans if they have managed it well.

        Now, the problem for British swimmers was a deep one. They tapered for trials in April, then again for Worlds in June, then the gap between worlds & CWG was a touch too long to hold, so they had to go back into hard work then taper down *again. That's three tapers already. They'll now be holding their CWG taper, but holding a taper off so little work between worlds & CWG = an almighty task. It works for the Americans because they (the pros, not college) are in heavy work all winter & spring, then do a taper for trials and hold it with all the hard work in the bank.

        In short: Our athletes may be tired, but there will be no excuse for them to be in the place our swimmers are. None at all.
        Last edited by Christy93; 12-08-22, 10:55.

        Comment


        • #37
          Originally posted by Christy93 View Post

          Would add something as a runner whose sisters were both swimmers: The way swimmers train and taper is quite different and far harder to 'hold'. Imo performance of swimmers also deteriorates far quicker, and it's to do with their taper more than exhaustion. A missed taper in swimming is catastrophic for their performance.

          For added context: It is not abnormal for swimmers to hold a taper for a month (the Americans always do it for Olympics!), and when done well it can been beneficial. British T&F athletes *should* be able to hold their taper from worlds through to Europeans if they have managed it well.

          Now, the problem for British swimmers was a deep one. They tapered for trials in April, then again for Worlds in June, then the gap between worlds & CWG was a touch too long to hold, so they had to go back into hard work then taper down *again. That's three tapers already. They'll now be holding their CWG taper, but holding a taper off so little work between worlds & CWG = an almighty task. It works for the Americans because they (the pros, not college) are in heavy work all winter & spring, then do a taper for trials and hold it with all the hard work in the bank.

          In short: Our athletes may be tired, but there will be no excuse for them to be in the place our swimmers are. None at all.
          All clever stuff about taper but it's a lot more than tapering, like the will, the competition . If you are telling me that our swimmers are as fresh and ready to go and as competitive as they should be when no other country has this particular triple issue (so you dont know how the top swimmers would fare), I think that what you stated is utterly oversimplified Even giants of competitiveness like Duncan Scott,,zTom Dean and Guy and others are clearly a shadow of their renowned best.
          How interesting that some of the brilliant best of Australian swimmers chose not to contest the world champs cos they considered it would jeopardise the CG.So much for tapering.
          Last edited by marilyn1; 12-08-22, 12:11.

          Comment


          • Christy93
            Christy93 commented
            Editing a comment
            That's literally the opposite of what I said. Duncan Scott isnt even competing, nor did he compete at worlds. Titmus skipped worlds, O'Callaghan went to worlds - It was the latter who set a 1s PB to almost beat the former, who was almost a second outside her PB, at CWG. You are clueless on this subject I am afraid Marilyn.

        • #38
          Typical marilyn1 goes on a rant without reading, never mind comprehending what another poster is saying.

          As someone who is far from an expert at swimming I found Christy93s post quite informative. I am at least expert enough to know that Scott & Guy are not competing at Europeans though.

          Comment


          • Christy93
            Christy93 commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm glad somebody made sense of it. In short, it boils down to this being the fourth time our swimmers have peaked this year, and three of those peaks were separate training cycles, and therby separate tapers. I think we'd all agree that is a much tougher task than our athletes competing in Munich next week, most of whom wouldn't have aimed to peak until worlds and will just be holding it through.

        • #39
          Originally posted by marilyn1 View Post

          All clever stuff about taper but it's a lot more than tapering, like the will, the competition . If you are telling me that our swimmers are as fresh and ready to go and as competitive as they should be when no other country has this particular triple issue (so you dont know how the top swimmers would fare), I think that what you stated is utterly oversimplified Even giants of competitiveness like Duncan Scott,,zTom Dean and Guy and others are clearly a shadow of their renowned best.
          How interesting that some of the brilliant best of Australian swimmers chose not to contest the world champs cos they considered it would jeopardise the CG.So much for tapering.
          To be fair, he was saying they would NOT be fresh, but that it’s a different process for T&F athletes.

          The athletes will put more pressure on themselves to succeed than most on this board, who will be aware of the process of peaking, and not moan that they haven’t matched their PB etc

          Comment


          • #40
            Setting aside the thorny issue of peaking. This year alone we have had bereavement, Glandular fever, MS, Covid, Deep vein thrombosis, injuries (major & minor) and a variety of bugs. It's a mini miracle when an athlete does manage to deliver on the biggest stage at the perfect time. For most it's an achievement to get this far. Of course being an elite athlete you will be disappointed not to produce a PB but just look at Laura Muir as someone who had to go through the process multiple times before finally coming good.

            Comment


            • #41
              Our swimmers are knackered, Brodie another to demonstrate that ..I disagree with what you said , a lot of stuff about taper, , when swimmers are clearly going to demonstrate over the next few days both physical and mental tiredness,
              Some world class swimmers know that 3 big meets in a 6 week period is too much and will continue to show.
              Do me a favour , I'm well aware that Duncan Scott after his CG medals is NOT in Rome. We all know why.
              A big spiel about tapering is in this meet for the Brits is an irrelevance and you in true AW Forum style did not respond to the point made about those Aussies who considered that two meets one after the other is tough and 3 is crazy.
              Happy to see Shanahan being an exception with a fine silver.

              Comment


              • #42
                Shanahan is an exception to the general GBR swimming "underperformance" precisely because of what Christy is saying - she didn't go to the Worlds so her taper situation has been much different from those that have had all 3.

                She (presumably) tapered for trials, then for the CGs and is holding that second taper here. She's not had to do the 3rd taper that the likes of Williams/Dean et al will have done (correct me if I'm wrong on this Christy93).

                Nobody is disputing that 3 champs is incredibly tough. Nobody - at least that I've seen - is surprised or disappointed in the GBR swimmers. There's a reason that the Euros was optional for them all and why we've taken something of a patchwork squad.

                People are saying that just because there are 3 champs in both athletics and swimming this year doesn't mean that both athletes in both sports will be affected in exactly the same way.

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                • #43
                  Schedule here - you need to register:

                  https://munich22results.european-ath...y-schedule.htm

                  Comment


                • #44
                  Originally posted by Sovietvest View Post

                  Kind of you to indulge me, LuckySpikes!
                  1) Laura - still can't believe she hung on to that early pace - I was confidently saying to the two people sat next to me (er, Donavan Brazier and Sonia O'Sullivan - who'd vacated the seats left by Dina's Mum and Dad!!!) that she'd blow up. That was one of many embarrassing wrong predictions I've made in athletics stadiums. I was also screaming "Wait .. .. .no, he's gone too early!!!" when Jake attacked. My finest moment however, was back in Atlanta in 96 telling all around me that Frankie Fredericks was about to beat MJ.
                  2) Running on Pre's Trail - just mentioned Korir in another post but also saw Gidey and Cheruiyot and a host of other athletes there (and in the local supermarket). It was like living in Stellar Street for athletics.
                  3) My daughter, who runs 400, getting her photo with SMU - who was lovely.
                  4) Eating my bodyweight for breakfast at The Original Pancake House and lunch at Track Town Pizza.
                  5) The seats in the stadium - like the most luxurious multiplex cinema seats with loads of leg room and cup holders.

                  Just to balance this all out I should add that I also spent two nights in cheap seats at Birmingham. The atmosphere was streets ahead of Eugene. Obviously crowd size was a factor but the noise per person (if that's a thing) was much louder in Brum and the overall levels of engagement in the action was so much higher. Way more attention given by the crowd to the field events. Scott Lincoln and Naomi Metzger got way more attention and received much louder cheers than Rojas or Crouser. Most bizarre of all, the crowd reaction to Jake in Eugene was nothing compared to the ear-splitting noise when our Decathlete kicked to a 4:50 second place in the Birmingham Dec 1500!!
                  Interesting to read the head honcho of AWs article in the recent issue on the spectatators at Eugene. He states when he walked on the concourse he noted people in hundreds not even watching the athletics sitting at bars, queuing for food for the fat bellies, and buy articles in the shops. Did u find similar?
                  Seb Coe made similar comments of what he found at the Superbowl this year when he went to the loo . Hundreds who had paid for the privilege not watching the game. Watching on tv and drinking of course. Do big soccer fans do that here?

                  Comment


                  • #45
                    Football has 1 break, lasts 2 hours max and you can't drink at your seat.

                    American football has 3 breaks, lasts 3 hours absolute minimum, often closer to 4, and you can drink where you want.

                    If you want a better comparison, look at a day at the cricket, or a day at the velodrome. And people come and go all the time for food/drink/club store at those.

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