Talent Identification

[carterhatch]

Great find MB!

[PotterHoppo96]

probably doesn't help that athletics isn't really an attractive sport to go into. Can't speak for Gemili but I'd say a English fourth division football player can earn more from a 15 year career than all but a few of our top athletes will. Probably the same for Rugby to an extent.

compare Devon Allen's abilities in athletics and nfl, and then which sport would pay him infinitly more.

I don't know what the answer is, other than hope that this sport, like Swimming and Cycling will always be able to attract talented people in. After all, we have world class British performers born after 2000

[MBChristie]

Terrible technique by Tom here:

https://www.facebook.com/LukeStoltman/videos/strongmen-try-to-break-shot-put-world-record/798977584033418/

[carterhatch]

To continue with the theme of talent ID ...

I dont often watch 'World's Strongest Man' TV shows but caught it on Ch 5 last night and discovered that the current 'World's Strongest Man' is actually a Tom Stoltman from Scotland. 6ft 8 and nicknamed 'The Albatross', due to his arm span, in one event he was tossing 20 -25 kg bags of sand sky high in a real demonstation of explosive power... he has an older brother who is also famous in this competition [and i believe there is a younger brother also training to compete]

I can't find any of the family on Po10 and I do wonder if any one of then has even tried SP ... Geoff Capes competed in World's Strongest Man type events and I am sure he must be aware of their potential ... so, my question, with talent ID in mind, is... Did British Athletics ever think to encourage any of the Stoltman family to try a field event? If not, why not?

[trickstat]

Yes, I think he decided to focus on athletics at about 16.

Adam Gemili was a youth player at Dagenham & Redbridge FC when he came 2nd in the English Schools' 100m at 16 and decided to switch sports

[RunUnlimited]

Didn't George Mills, son of former England international football, Danny Mills, try his hand at football too as a teenager, before turning his full attention to athletics? We certainly need more talent identification from other sports, as well as doing a better job of talent retention within athletics itself too.

[carterhatch]

Nice bit of knowledge, Mysterybrick - I didn't realise he'd been involved in UK bobsleigh [which ironically is why I started this thread] and can't find any info about his football career but, FYI, 'Greg has also enjoyed a successful career in athletics, winning the Surrey County Indoor Track & Field Championships 60m title with a record of 6.69 seconds in February 2016.'

[MysteryBrick]

You do get a few of these - Greg Cackett was a sprinter a few years ago who came from football, I believe - I still think exposure at school is the most important thing, to ensure people know what is there.

[carterhatch]

I caught the back of a rugby league match - Salford vs Leeds - where a try was scored by Ash Handley. He intercepted the ball close to his own try line, ran the entire length of the field, full gas, but was hardly out of breath when he tocuhed down. He is 26, 6.2, must be tough as nails to play this game, and I wondered what athletics he ever tried ... [I looked at Po10 but nothing obvious to link to him]

Sure, he might be quite happy being a professional sportsman in a game he has a true passion for, but my point is, and this is not a revelation as most on this forum would already be thinking the same, there are hundreds of similar lads who dont quite make the grade, but what do UK Athletics do to engage with such a potential cohort?

I know this issue is highly exacerbated in the US, with all sorts of competing sports for the talent pool, but we are not blessed with such a large population, so we should be doing much more proactively to engage those outside the usual junior to senior conveyor.

I am sure there is young lad, played Rugby League all his life, probably enjoyed the social side of the sport a little too much at Uni' to have realy made the step up to being a professional, now floundering a little in a corporate graduate-scheme, but at 23, regrets not exploring a sporting career, but with a couple of years hard work, is a sub 45 runner, but had never done athletics at school [apart from maybe a throws event at school sports day as he was the biggest lad in the class] ...

[Ladyloz]

It will be coaching and athletes - too many want the glory events and want to give it “one more year” and then see…and never move. Look at the marathon…too many have this idea that it’s something you do once you’ve become slow at 5/10k on the track…

One would have hoped Callum Hawkins taking up the event successfully in his early 20s would have changed that mindset in the UK at least.

[carterhatch]

Agree entirely, RunUnlimited, spotting an athlete at a meet who could flourish in another event surely is one of the great opportunities available. It was though, very pleasing to see Naomi Metzger finally get a PB and put together a vry good series .

On your first point, I have said many times before, there is distinct pattern in UK Athletics, where succession planning, or lack of, often occurs, especially when we have a cohort of outstanding athletes in an event, that the governing body seem to think will compete for ever, but when they retire, there is no one to fill the gap as there had been limited resource/time/effort/opportunity for those who followed.

[jjimbojames]

It will be coaching and athletes - too many want the glory events and want to give it “one more year” and then see…and never move. Look at the marathon…too many have this idea that it’s something you do once you’ve become slow at 5/10k on the track…

[carterhatch]

While trying to muster interest in another of my 'initiatives' - Project sub-3 - I quoted Roger Black, '“If you want to now find the next great British 400m runner, he will be between the ages of 18 and 21 and he thinks he’s a 100m runner.” He may have had wind of Charlie Dobson and only knows what he thinks of the fact Ojie Edoburun has never run a 400 [according to Po10].

[RunUnlimited]

Greg Rutherford said last week, the LJ talent was there, it's just that they all want to be average sprinters. There are only 2 men who have triple jumped over 16m outdoors this year. That standard must be going back to pre Keith Connor days, a man with the pedigree required to address and change this.

We never took advantage of having Jonathan Edwards, Philips Idowu, Greg Rutherford or Chris Tomlinson in our ranks during their careers. To be in the position where in the triple jump we only have two men who have gone beyond 16 meters all season (and this has been largely the case for almost a decade now, save for Ben Williams's 2019 resurgence), is really depressing. Talking of Williams, he had several, huge fouls in that CWG triple jump final yesterday, all of which would have won gold. With his extensive injury history, that could have been Ben's one and only chance to gain a medal in his career. He'll be kicking himself for his lack of runway discipline.

If you are a triple jump coach currently, I have to ask, aren't you showing your athletes regular videos of Edwards or Idowu's jumps and technique? Are you just forging along with "what you know" and allowing your jumpers to continue to toil away in the mid-15 meters and being fine with that? Really?

Haven't you been looking at some of those sprinters you've no doubt seen on the National League circuit and wondered "You know, I think there's an 8m/17m jumper in that man. I don't know why he bothers trying to break 10 seconds, he's got no hope of that. Maybe I could guide him into another direction." Because if they haven't, then they should be doing that as soon as possible!

[jjimbojames]

The talent doesn’t shrink…it just moves! He’s right, too many 10.3 sprinters don’t look to other events, they either keep plugging away at the 100m or leave the sport.

Same is true of the hurdles/steeple - the next star of the steeple is currently running mid pack in the 1500m, without realising they could be making teams elsewhere. I don’t remember someone like Imani, Bianca ever doing hurdles as a junior - but that 11.1/11.2 pace with some good technique is how you get Tobi Amusan…or make the semis at CWG over the flat!

I thought Nicole Y was looking at the 4H…smart move!