UK Steeplechase - State of Play

[carterhatch]

I was all set to pose the question – Will the British women’s 3000m steeplechase national record be broken in Tokyo (honest guv’) - when I got distracted, and then as if on cue a gritty run by Elizabeth Bird in Monaco does that very thing.

Once again the ladies lead the way in an event that has not been at the forefront of many people’s thoughts. Indeed, when you think national records one imagines the athlete involved winning a race in a global championship, and perhaps not some way down the finishers, and overlooked by Power of Ten results this morning.

Of course I can still ask the question will the record be broken, again, as I suspect that both Ms. Bird and Aimee Pratt will continue this growing domestic rivalry, with each raising their game and consequently lowering the record.

The men will not be threatening the national record any time soon, I suspect, but there are signs that standards are moving in the right direction, with both Phil Norman and Zak Seddon in the all time top 10, but what money for Mark Pearce, with no doubt a point to prove, to go faster than the pair them in the next 12 months.

[Occasional Hope]

I think the rivalry has been great for both of them.

[carterhatch]

What a Steeplechase final. Brilliant race - fast and furious and 4 NRs set (Jeruto as well though not marked on the results as such.)

What a fabulous run by Aimee Pratt and taking some big scalps too. Chuffed for little Luiza Gega too ... 5th place! I said after the heats that she was ready to take a big chunk off her NR (almost 5s as it happens).

and on that note... this quiet little backwater of a thread needs to be bumped forward.

I don't know the stats but to break a British record not once, but twice, in a global competition has to be a very rare event. A tremendous achievement by Aimee Pratt and an inspiration to others in any event[s] where a podium finish might not seem possible, but by setting a challenging personal goal, which you subsequently achieve, it can have its own reward.

I think at the end of the championships, when medal tables are discussed, a very important footnote should be Ms. Pratt's accomplishment.

[trickstat]

I have dug out one example of an athlete setting British records in separate rounds at a global champs. 1988 was Sally Gunnell's first year at 400H (barring one low-key outing the year before) and she set British records in both the semi and when placing 5th in the final at the Seoul Olympics that year.

I think doing it in a longer event is rarer as if you are breaking the record in a heat you are probably having to run so hard that you will likely not run quicker in the final.

[LuckySpikes]

Aimee & Lizzie have made great strides for British women's steeplechasing.

Can our men be inspired by them and follow suit? We have a good tradition in this event from the 80s and 90s.

However, I suspect our next male Steeplechaser capable of a global Top 8 is not one of the current crop but a frustrated 3:36 1500 athlete instead.

[MysteryBrick]

Agreed Luckyspikes, and I think the success (and continued strong set of juniors) over 800m and 1500m will start to lead to greater success in 5000m (as it already is) and Steeplechase.

[trickstat]

When we have had really top-class male 'chasers in the past, it has usually been at a time when we have also been pretty strong, and had plenty of depth, at 1500 and 5000 and cross-country. This doesn't mean that our top guys were all 'nearly men' on the flat who then took up the chase, although UK record holder, Mark Rowland, most definitely was. Most of them took up the event before they became an international but in their prime often performed well on the flat, cross-country or road also.

[RunUnlimited]

Of course we should mention the awesome, record breaking runs from Aimee Pratt this week (and for most of this year and the last too), but it's not only her and Lizzie Bird leading the way in women's steeplechase. There is also Elise Thorner who has shown big improvements in the last year or so and smashed the nearly decade old UK U23 record belonging to Elish McColgan in April this year. She's only 21, but she is already looking like a very good prospect in the future of the steeplechase in this country, following on in Pratt and Bird's inspiring footsteps.

[trickstat]

Elise is at college in the US and it appears to me that the NCAA can be good for steeplechasers. The scoring system means that a 'chaser is as valuable to the team as anyone else who does one event at a Champs. Over here, they tend to be poor relation compared with the flat runners and fields can be rather sparse and spread out.

It appears that we can thank Lizzie Bird's US College for her taking up the event as she hadn't run one before she went there. She was a middle-distance runner from Herts who had performed decently at national age-group events without ever, as far as I can recall, and I think that she probably have remained the case at senior level if she hadn't taken up the 'chase.

[carterhatch]

Again, I return to one of my favourite topics ... Talent identification. in this case making the most of the pool of existing MD runners but encouraging them to try steeplechase.

Looking at the men's event, the next Olympic cycle for 1500 is stacked with talent [Wightman, Kerr, Gourley, Hayward] if they remain fit and healthy, it is going to be a very difficult cohort to dislodge from the selection.

If I were UK Athletics I would find a little pot of money down the back of a sofa and work with BMC to stage a few s'chase events with a view to encouraging some 'newbies' from that pool of MD runners to compete with some prize money. Maybe a cross country event or two that better mimics the s'chase, with same distance, similar barrier heights and a water feature, to surreptitiously promote interest...

[trickstat]

Might be an idea to start off with races at 1500 and/or 2000SC to ease them in and encourage participation?

[carterhatch]

Good point, trickstat, I'll add that to my memo to UK Athletics

[carterhatch]

As trickstat commented in the thread above, 'it appears to me that the NCAA can be good for steeplechasers'

so it continues with

Maisie Grice makes the NCAA finals running 8:48.89 (PB) in the 3000M S/C

and I do believe Elise Thorner has also spent time at a US college, and someone I expect to revise their PB this year...

Thanks America!

[Occasional Hope]

Po10 has that as a slightly more plausible 9.48.

[carterhatch]

whoops ... should have noticed that in my eagerness to post! cheers OH, you are quite right...

[carterhatch]

As forum users will know, the men’s world record for 3000 metres steeplechase was recently broken by Lamecha Girma, from Ethiopia, setting a time of 7:52.11. The previous record had stood for 19 years.

Meanwhile William Battershill revised his PB to 8:23:31 advancing him to 16^th on the UK ‘All Time’ list. A list that is topped by Mark Rowland who set the UK record in 1988; 35 years ago. Indeed, as Ursus pointed out in a discussion elsewhere, the last time anyone entered the top-5 in that list was 32 years ago. No other men’s event has waited such a long time to be ‘refreshed’ with a new entry.

Phil Norman, at 8^th, is the highest on the ‘All time’ list of runners who are currently active. He hasn’t run a SC this outdoor season but he has competed recently. Zak Seddon is 10^th but is yet to get under 8:20.

How does the disparity between the World Record and UK national record compare:

3000sc WR 7:52.11 UK NR 8:07.96
m3000 WR 7:20.67 UK NR 7:31.97i

For further comparison:
m1500 WR 3:26.00 UK NR 3:28.81
m5000 WR 12:35.36 UK NR 12:53.11

It’s fair to say that the further the distance the wider the disparity between WR and UK NR.

Given the relative healthy state of middle-distance running in this country it would seem the obvious answer would be for someone with good flat speed to grasp the opportunity … but I very much suspect it’s not that simple.

[LuckySpikes]

Battershill aside (although 8:23 is barely competitive at European level these days), another poor day for our male Steeplechasers. Seddon was a DNF in Nice and in Battershill's race in Vienna, Pearce ran 8:40 and Hopkins 8:50.

[Occasional Hope]

Seddon did run 8.21.78 not far outside his PB a few days earlier so might have been knackered from that. Although I agree it's not really world class territory anyway.

[Runner88]

Mark Pearce looked on the verge of a breakthrough a couple of years ago. Seems to be returning after injury.

Haven’t seen much from Jermaine Coleman this year and Phil Norman I don’t think has done a steeplechase yet. The trials could be competitive and a great race to watch but it does look unlikely we’ll have anyone in Budapest

[Runner88]

Oh in fact Jamaine has run an 8.33 at the end of May - should have checked before posting. Hopefully he starts racing in Europe soon

[carterhatch]

Runner88 commented on August Outdoor Results, about Georgia Bell, 'An amazing series of breakthroughs for her this summer. Would it be foolish to suggest she has a go over some barriers in training this winter? The 1500m will be incredibly tough to qualify for the Olympics. At 30 this year she may have one shot at making an Olympic team and the steeple is much less competitive…'

It made me reflect on the 3000SC...

No men were selected for Budapest. There are one or two athletes who I’m sure will use the winter to try and find the extra needed to make qualification for Paris. The women fair better, with Bird & Pratt both likely, if fit and healthy, to make Paris though of course no guarantee.

I realise, with Paris less than a year away, it is probably far too late for most middle distance runners to take up the 'chase…

BUT with the selection for both the men's & women's 1500m almost pre-determined, if the various athletes are fit and healthy [Keller, Weightman, plus 1; Muir, Snowden, plus 1] then might others really have to consider seriously what to do if they are to make Paris. The natural move would be to try and get selected for the 5000 but could some make ‘one shot at making an Olympic team’ and convert to the ‘chase.

When I put the question elsewhere, someone suggested Piers Copeland might consider a last minute conversion.. . who else might make a rapid and successful conversion?

[Mikka]

Yeah, I mentioned Copeland because of his height (thinking of Mekhissi-Benabbad and El Bakkali as exemplars), but I guess he's more of an 800-1500 guy than 1500-5k. Would be interesting to see him try.

[Occasional Hope]

I think our current male steeplers are just not fast enough on the flat. But not everyone is good at converting to the barriers and I think it has to be a long term stratagem.

[jjimbojames]

Looking at the 3k list, Charles Wheeler did steeple as a junior, so his 7.51i pace could be handy - but based out in the US college system, so unless he’s worth points to them there, he won’t move over.

Some people’s best distance is the 3k - if I was them, I’d take a look at trying it

[carterhatch]

I really urge someone take up the challenge - there is an opening in the 3000SC and it would be a fairytale journey. UK athletics could play their part and offer some incentive to a small cohort - but of course they wont.

[Occasional Hope]

Maybe some of our youngsters like Ed Bird could be encouraged?

[philipo]

I think our current male steeplers are just not fast enough on the flat. But not everyone is good at converting to the barriers and I think it has to be a long term stratagem.

Watch out next year for Beamish , a top class guy on the flat, who had the balls to change to steeple
The brits cannot be bothered , clearly.

[carterhatch]

Referring to Po10

Charles Wheeler - who ran an indoor PB for 3000 this year [7.51.xx and quicker than Battershill] - has run 2000SC in the past.
James West, 3rd fastest in the 3000 for 2023, did a 1500 SC 'back in the day' ...
Ian Crowe-Right coached by Geoff Weightman, PB 5000 in 2023, sub-8 3000, has run 400h and 2000SC


even Marc Scott once run SC back in 2011? Just saying.

C'mon lads; you know it makes sense ... Paris beckons!