Multi Events - State of Play

[RunUnlimited]

Hmm, of course with the tough schedule that these USA based decathletes will be following to consider, there is the distinct possibility that this won't happen....

But with Jack Turner and now Ollie Thorner having gained the Euro U23 Q score and Jami Schlueter within 200 points of it (plus Phillip Kastner around 7400+ points too), it's not beyond the realms of believability that GB could be in a position to send *3* decathletes to Espoo, which would be a rarity I'm sure.

[carterhatch]

Ian Hodge notes an interesting 'stat' [in my bold]…

‘Commonwealth Games star Harry Kendall places 3rd today in the Naxos (Greece) Decathlon with 7702 pts.
Howard Bell a huge PB of 7470 points. Already seven Brits over 7400 pts this year -- the most since 2013.’

Worth mentioning that these seven do not include the likes of Tim Duckworth or Sam Talbot.

Anyone have any insight into what has happened to Duckworth? He only competed in LJ during 2022 and not shown so far in 2023. It is worth remembering he is 3^rd on the all time lists [8336], achieved at such a young age, A mark no other Brit has looked even close to surpassing, though Jack Turner’s recent 8011 [7^th all time and only the seventh Brit in the benchmark 8000s - sevens abound!!] shows promise.

Sam Talbot performed indoors but is yet to show outdoors. He has been slowly improving PBs in various events and I hope he is fit, healthy and, that oft forgotten third element of the performance isosceles, happy… something maybe, and pure speculation on my part, Duckworth wasn’t when it came to the Decathlon…

[felix51]

I attempted to watch the Naxos Decathlon on YouTube, but it was dreadful coverage! Also rather confusingly, Harry Kendal, initially had 3 fouls in the JT, so I gave up on watching. But apparently his 3rd throw was reinstated. Roll on next weekend and decent coverage of Gotzis.

[treadwater1]

Duckworth has gone into coaching at the University of Washington

[carterhatch]

Thanks, treadwater1, but does that mean he has stopped competing in Decathlon?

[RunUnlimited]

Noted in the '2023 OUTdoors' thread



As Occasional Hope notes, 'If she manages it it will be the first heptathlon Niamh has completed since her world junior title in 2018.'

i really hope that each of the UK ladies turns up fit, healthy and happy and able to perform well and finish the two days. I suspect that is asking too much LOL.

I invite RunUnlimited to give one of his great summaries for the cohort of youngsters who hope to make an impression in the coming months for 'age groups' and more...

You called?

Well I did start a thread about up and coming UK athletes earlier in the year, and now with some of those U23, U20 and U18 athletes making their appearances outdoors now, the time is right for a little update.


Heptathlon - U23

Olivia Dobson - 2023 best, 5537 SB. Currently having her best season as a heptathlete on the NCAA circuit since 2019 when she set her PB of 5552 before the European U20s in Boras. Generally good with the throws but a lot weaker in the speed and jumping events as a rule, but this year has seen some progress in the long jump were she's set a PB (5.76m), 800m (2;21.67) and 200m (25.89). She's still short of the European U23 q standard and would need more consistent form in the high jump, shot put and javelin to achieve it.
Will never likely be at a world class standard, but it's good to see her finally showing signs of progress after several years of stagnation.

Madison Hutton - 2023 best, 5387 PB. Like Dobson, Hutton is part of the US college track & field system at Frenso State. Set her current heptathlon PB last weekend, with significant PBs in the 100m hurdles (14.00 - half second improvement), shot put (11.90m) and 200m (25.77 - first time under 26 seconds) being a highlight, However, she couldn't throw the javelin further than 35m, down on her 38m PB and was disappointing in the high jump, failing to clear higher than 1.67m which is seriously holding her back.


Heptathlon - U20

Ella Rush - 2023 best, 5422 SB. Another recent transferee to the NCAA system (University of Georgia), Rush is the only one out of the current crop of U20 heptathletes to have completed one this year. And in doing so, she achieved the qualifying standard for the Euro U20s. However, there were some deficiencies in the performance, like failing to jump beyond 6m, underperforming in the high jump, not getting the shot or javelin quite right, or her slower than expected 200m.
She still currently leads the European U20 rankings this year, but I'll be amazed if the medals in Jerusalem went for anything less than 5700 points, so she'll need to up her game for sure if she hopes to get on the podium.

Seren Rodgers - 2023 best, N/A. Hept PB (U20, 4968. U18, 5324) PBs in 200m, Shot ( outdoors ) and long jump ( = PB). Rogers has yet to complete a heptathlon this year, having only competed outdoors once in a low-key in Yeovil and coming off a busy indoor season. She did set several PBs in that 3 day meeting, but until such time as she puts in a full multi event effort, it will be difficult to tell where she is at currently on her development. Made a 300+ point improvement in U18 heptathlon points PB in the 3 she competed in during 2022, culminating in the 5324 she accumulated at the Euro U18s that secured her 7th place - a score and position that would have been even better had it not be for a bad stumble in the 100m hurdles.


Eloise Hind - 2023 best, N/A. Hind hasn't competed since pulling out injured before day 2 of the World U20 heptathlon last August. Was a first year U20 and made some big strides through the year. Hope to see her at some point this year to see how she has recovered.

[carterhatch]

Thanks for the update, RunUnlimited... I was actually following-up another athlete you mentioned elsewhere, in an entirely different event, Elise Thorner 3000SC, and according to her Po10 she was competing in Hep back in 2018, and indeed from my brief look, the only two disciplines she hasn't tried is PV and Hammer!

[jjimbojames]

No Niamh or Holly in Gotzis (courtesy of James Rhodes). Don’t expect to see Sam any time soon either…

[RunUnlimited]

No Niamh or Holly in Gotzis (courtesy of James Rhodes). Don’t expect to see Sam any time soon either…

Damn it! This sucks big time!

[LoveSprints1]

Sadly Ella Rush is injured too. Not sure if she will be back in time for Euro U20 qualification.

[RunUnlimited]

I feared this being the case when she wasn't at the NCAA Conference champs the previous weekend.

[Occasional Hope]

Oh dear, what a shame. I hope not the result of over train8ng by her college coach.

[LoveSprints1]

Holly Mills still recovering from injury set back last year; https://twitter.com/AthleticsWeekly/...125313?s=20

[Mikka]

Thinking about another of our promising heptathletes, Abigail Pawlett, a first year U23 now. She's made excellent improvements in the hurdles and SP in the last few years. If we look at the other disciplines, however, there's been some stasis (and perhaps shows how good she was at a young age). At 16, she ran a 24.84 200m; PB is now 24.12. At the same age, 800 PB was 2.29, now down to 2.24. But the jumps are the most interesting, as both look like regressions. From 2018-2023, LJ SBs were 6.09, 6.04, 6.09, 5.85, 5.77. HJ SBs were 1.76, 1.75, 1.74, 1.73, 1.71.
Clearly COVID and injuries are factors. And this season is only just getting started. Will be interesting to see what she does in the next couple of years because the innate talent is there.

[drobbie]

ive no idea whats wrong with emerson, still posting training videos today, looks in good shape

[carterhatch]

My athletics thought of the day was prompted by various discussions on the forum about multi eventers; where we are rightly proud of the sustained lineage of UK female athletes in this event.

Indeed a background in multi-eventing has proved no impediment, for a number of ladies, to go onto various degrees of success in a single event, but no doubt formed a robust foundation. It is easy to forget that Tessa Sanderson is 13th all time in the Hepthalon [yes, yes, I know with the old javelin], Sally Gunnell [63], Meghan Beesley [92], and more recently Morgan Lake [11]; all might have been described as heptathletes in their early athletics career.

The recent interview with Jazmin Sawyers [only 150th] highlighted how she had to make a calculated decision as to what event would bring her the most success having set out as a heptathlete.

One question I asked myself, is how many male athletes have started out competing in multi events but then decided to focus on a single discipline and made a ‘success’. Scanning the all time top 100, I could only really make a case for one, Du'aine Ladejo [37].

Is it a stretch to suggest that British male athletes specialise too early?

I can certainly see benefits for female athletes to be encouraged to try multiple disciplines when young, until they discover, if at all, what they might excel in. I have not doubt that one or two of the young ladies mentioned already this season making strides in multi-events will eventually come to pursue a single discipline. Indeed, I mentioned on another thread that the Steeplechaser Elise Thorner had dabbled in hep.

Where in contrast, for example, male sprinters seem reluctant, or are not encouraged, to even try jumps or one-lap, during their informative years. Moreover, are there just too many disciplines in decathlon to allow such an organic process to naturally occur.

Perhaps the likes of Holly Mills and Niamh Emerson, both having progress hampered by injury, will decide, much like Sawyers, to focus on just one event…

Your thoughts...

[jjimbojames]

Boys are affected more because of the additional events and skill set needed - a first year U17 girl has only added 200m (easy enough to mix into training) and the jav. Girls who are speed-based continue to excel, as the events are quite narrow. For boys, there is a massive difference for a combined eventer going from gutting out an 800m to a 1500m. Throws are more technical…and then the PV comes!

[carterhatch]

You are quite right, jjimbojames. When looking into this I considered the case of the gifted Dominic Ogbechie, and assumed he had never run 1500, but in fact he had, The only event of the Decathlon events he had not tackled in competition was, indeed, the PV.

[jjimbojames]

Hard to find a PV coach, let alone an athlete who can make a success of it as their tenth event!

[Mikka]

Thinking about another of our promising heptathletes, Abigail Pawlett, a first year U23 now. She's made excellent improvements in the hurdles and SP in the last few years. If we look at the other disciplines, however, there's been some stasis (and perhaps shows how good she was at a young age). At 16, she ran a 24.84 200m; PB is now 24.12. At the same age, 800 PB was 2.29, now down to 2.24. But the jumps are the most interesting, as both look like regressions. From 2018-2023, LJ SBs were 6.09, 6.04, 6.09, 5.85, 5.77. HJ SBs were 1.76, 1.75, 1.74, 1.73, 1.71.
Clearly COVID and injuries are factors. And this season is only just getting started. Will be interesting to see what she does in the next couple of years because the innate talent is there.

Unfortunately, some more evidence of this today...

[philipo]

Thinking about another of our promising heptathletes, Abigail Pawlett, a first year U23 now. She's made excellent improvements in the hurdles and SP in the last few years. If we look at the other disciplines, however, there's been some stasis (and perhaps shows how good she was at a young age). At 16, she ran a 24.84 200m; PB is now 24.12. At the same age, 800 PB was 2.29, now down to 2.24. But the jumps are the most interesting, as both look like regressions. From 2018-2023, LJ SBs were 6.09, 6.04, 6.09, 5.85, 5.77. HJ SBs were 1.76, 1.75, 1.74, 1.73, 1.71.
Clearly COVID and injuries are factors. And this season is only just getting started. Will be interesting to see what she does in the next couple of years because the innate talent is there.

Lots of promise. One hope's for performance,not endless injuries.

[carterhatch]

Jade O'Dowda in the earlier heat ran 2:11.90, her 3rd PB of the heptathlon and she slightly improved her overall points PB with 6255.

Which takes Ms. O'Dowda to 8th on the all time list one position above Niamh Emerson [6253] and two below Holly Mills at 6th [6260] ... given those later two have been keenly supported, rightly so, for their potential, young Jade has quietly positioned herself into the conversation of whom will take over top spot when KJT finally calls a halt to the roller coaster ...

[MysteryBrick]

O'Dowda is also a prime example of how stupid the World Athletics standards and UK Athletics' approach to them are. She's just come 10th in Gotzis, the best non-Major multis competition there is going, but will be sat relying on an invite (which she will get, as she's currently 13th on the multis ranking list) which UK Athletics likely won't accept...

[carterhatch]

ps... Jodie Smith wins the England Athletics OPEN Senior with 5998 [so close to what must be a psychological benchmark] to sneak into the all time list at 20 ousting Phyllis Agbo

[libarun]

Using Nafi’s points tally from her showing in five events this weekend and adding the 1.95 HJ she always pulls out when it matters and her 2:13 800m - she too is in 6900+ shape. Considering this is her season opener, that’s fearsome. There’s also room to grow in the javelin.

Her coach made the quite reasonable point in an interview that, media hype aside, Gotzis is not Worlds and that Nafi has consistently proved herself at majors against strong competition and is used to being pitted against a rival with gold on the line, so what she faces in Hall is not new. Shame he couched it in a much less reasonable thought about Americans lacking technique!

[MysteryBrick]

The thing that makes this exciting is that Hall is GOING to put big points in on the 800m, so there can be no let up at all.

[libarun]

Yes, the ideal situation to get some eyeballs on the multi in Budapest is if the gold hangs in the balance come the 800. Technically it did last year between Vetter and Thiam but there was never any real jeopardy, and certainly not after the first 200m made it clear Vetter wasn’t going to die trying.

[Ladyloz]

I think the sweet spot ahead of the 800m would be for Thiam to be ahead by about 125 points or so.