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UK 400m - State of play

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  • Stew-Coach
    commented on 's reply
    CH I fear you flatter me too much, even more so given my recent inability to help Yasmin secure a Tokyo position

    Though, IMO it does come down to coaches education/ nurturing, I fear the world of the internet has left a large number of UK coaches somewhat confused in their platform form what would be seen as a "traditional" approach to 400 in the UK, and that being popularised by the USA (where the weather of course is more conducive to that type of programme). I have seen many programme seem to be hybrid but not perhaps in a way I personally would do, although I admit this for myself has perhaps only really been the case the last few years. And education of the event is very few and far between in reality.

    That and we seem to place good athletes with people purely because, A) Where that coach is (and they are lucky enough to have the footfall to make them look good!) and or B) they were once an international athlete (which of course make's them a good coach for the event, right?)

  • SprintRelayFan
    commented on 's reply
    Oh thank you!
    Dan Rowden, as a 19 year old 5 years ago was running 48...But I don't really think we want him mucking around. Langford and Francis don't seem to be doing amazingly in their events though....

  • carterhatch
    commented on 's reply
    No Problem As your new thread was a first posting it wouldn't let me just 'comment' .... great question though - and enjoying all your input. There are are series of 'State of Play' to ponder!

  • SprintRelayFan
    replied
    Oops sorry! I hadn't noticed this one.
    Bizarrely there is an American running over here. I can't remember the details though

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  • carterhatch
    replied
    Originally posted by SprintRelayFan View Post
    What do we do?
    I've noticed Miguel Francis has a PB of 46.48 - which for an event he's run 4 times doesn't seem ridiculous? Given how often he gets injured would it be worth him changing up so he was having to be less explosive?
    That's a good question... and one I was asking myself this morning. I was pondering. for example, how fast might Kyle Lanford could do a 400, he has a SB of 47 and very small bits ... I would ask stew-coach to reply with a five point plan lol

    Short of finding 4 fast, young americans with Jackie Charlton style British ancestory, I am not sure how it can be turned around quickly...

    Although I would urge the 5 lads in the 4x400 squad to find some warm weather track, and along with their respective coaches, train together for the next 4 weeks and find a way of cutting 1 sec off their times....
    Last edited by carterhatch; 30-06-21, 17:34.

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  • trickstat
    commented on 's reply
    If my memory is correct when Sally Gunnell ran her 52.74 WR at the 1993 World Champs, I estimated that there were only about 6 other Brits that year who would have cleared the final hurdle when she finished if they ran their SB.

  • RunUnlimited
    commented on 's reply
    MysteryBrick Yep, I can agree with that. When Sally Gunnell had her years of dominance ('91 - '94) in the 400 m hurdles, there was only (the much over-looked) Gowry Retchakan-Hodge really who was running at an international level with Sally. (A late starter to athletics - according to her Po10 page, Gowry's first recorded performances came in 1990, when she was already 29! -) the Thurrock athlete was remarkably consistent and always seemed to give her best effort on the big stage - she reached the semi-finals of the 1991 and 1993 World Championships, and the semi-finals of the 1992 Olympics, setting personal bests in each one.
    In the 400 m, after Kathy Cook's all too brief (but brilliant) time running that distance in the 1980s, there was a dearth of talented 400 m runners (and in general women's sprinting overall). There was the occasional blip, with Phyllis Smith in the 92 Olympics and Lorraine Hanson in the 91 Worlds, but it wasn't until Merry discovered the long sprint was her event in 1999, and Donna Frasier had the season of her life in the year 2000, that we had two Brits capable of running sub 50 seconds. And that was only a brief period of time before Donna dropped off and Merry's career was hobbled by injuries when poised to be a world champion.
    Last edited by RunUnlimited; 01-07-21, 13:12.

  • trickstat
    commented on 's reply
    If you take the women's 400 finalists from yesterday plus our 4 400 hurdlers with the Qualifying Time, you could make 3 relay teams and I think even the C team would be stronger in world terms than our best men's team would be at the moment.

    We have had a number of male 400 runners down the years whose careers have been truncated by injuries but they usually had at least one season of truly world-class running before that (e.g. Redmond, Grindley, Benjamin (and to some extent) Thomas). More recently, we seem to have had athletes falling by the wayside well before exhibiting competitively the performances you feel they might do. Not necessarily, mid 44s like those I've mentioned because only the US ever produces those in great numbers but, at least high 44s and low 45s.

    I do wonder if there isn't the odd 200 runner out there who ought to consider moving up or is it better to try and work on the speed of the existing specialists? No reason not to try both of course!

  • MysteryBrick
    commented on 's reply
    I'm pretty sure we have the best depth we've ever had at W400m and W400mh, just without a Christine or a Sally Gunnell at the front.

  • MysteryBrick
    commented on 's reply
    Amen on the women's side (I'd take Pipi as the third placed Champs runner).

    On the men's side, I think the guys just aren't fast enough over 200m. I'd make them all do a season over 100m/200m to properly work on top end speed.

  • carterhatch
    replied
    The women's 400m final at the 2021 championships was very competitive. Jodie Williams should be given huge credit, as it must take immense character to ride the ups and downs of her career, the pressure of expectations from such a young prodigous age and find the belief to change events. Not to mention being an inspiration to her younger sister, Hannah, who was the only runner to meet my key metric, get a PB . Yeargin has had an amazing trajectory this past 12 months, and I hope she has something left after the NCAA, as young Anning seemed to show in the final, it can catch up with an athlete any time. Laviai Nielsen was always under pressure in the outside lane, and hasn't really looked at her very best all season. I wonder if it would be better for her,.long term, to focus on the relays at Tokyo (women's and mixed). Ama Pipi doesnt get the plaudits of others but has earnt that third berth. The only small disappointment is that in very good conditions and wiith great competition, no one run sub 51, I am hoping that it is only a matter of time before 3/4 or do. Women's 400 in this country is in a very good place.

    Men's.... I despair. I ask Stew-coach, seriously, to give us a 5 point plan to improve the situation by Paris, I wouldn't take a men's 4x400 relay just 'for experience' but with the 'mixed' relay being introduced at this Olympics, is there any one on the team, who is likely to go, who could do a shift ?




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  • Occasional Hope
    replied
    Interview with Nicole Yeargin: Nicole Yeargin: US-based Scot bids to crown startling rise with Olympic spot - BBC Sport

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  • MysteryBrick
    commented on 's reply
    I'm not disputing the facts at all - just querying what you meant by saying 'the decade 2000s or any other... is not much better than the 2000s'.

  • philipo
    replied
    To change the subject, I must say the womens competitions, in events in the British trials are at least as interesting than their male counterparts, if not more so.

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  • philipo
    replied
    The issue is not complicated. Our 400m guys are very poor. End of the matter for me.

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