UK 1500m - State of Play

[philipo]

MB Never gives up to exaggerate the effects of the new shoe generation with faster tracks. The brits only have to win olympic golds and set multiple world records in the 1500m or mile to compare with bygone times 😄😄

[MysteryBrick]

Carterhatch, you're shouting into the wind, alas. Initially Philipo always said 'they hadn't won any titles', now they have it's 'they haven't set multiple World Records'. So I assume he regards Tommy Hampson, who won Olympic Gold and set a World Record, as superior to Coe or Ovett.

[BeHappy]

Tommy Hampson? A bit before my time but even I know he was a brilliant 800m runner (but not in Coe's class). I didn't think he was much of a 1500m runner?

[Deano27]

There have been various articles and studies that conclude the 'new super shoes' - first used in Rio '16 (by Kipchoge) and then later developed for certain athletes on the track in 2019 Worlds, now available to all, - improve performance by between 1 and 1.5%. That is 2 - 3 seconds for a 3:30 1500m runner.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/feb/22/super-spikes-seismic-shift-athletics-track-nike-air-zoom-victory-tokyo-olympics

Then you have the Mondo tracks, where the designers claim (at each successive global champs) to be faster.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/08/04/many-world-records-tumbling-tokyo-2020-technology-behind-track/?WT.mc_id=e_DM1474578&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_PrS_New&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_PrS_New20210805&utm_campaign=DM1474578

Now, I'm sure these dual benefits, not to mention the wave light pacing, have different effects on different athletes, but it is undeniable that the recent slew of WRs, NR's and depth in fast times, is due to this. Kerr and Wightmen are amongst the best half dozen in the world now, but their times and achievements do not yet compare to the big 3 of the late 70's/early 80's.

[BeHappy]

A great analysis, Carterhatch. I am enjoying the renaissance of British men's middle distance and, like Philipo, I 'need my head examining' for thinking that Kerr and Weightman have matched the achievements of Coe, Ovett and Cram.

[carterhatch]

Ian Hodge greeted the recent women’s 1500 at the Brussels DL with the tweet… '3 Britons below four minutes in the w 1500m!! Laura Muir looking back to her best with 3:55.34- a big Seasons best. Fellow world finalists Melisa Courtney-Bryant and Katie Snowden both ultra consistent in 3:58 territory - only Ethiopia has better depth.'

This was followed over the weekend by the news that Jemma Reekie had won the 5th Avenue Mile [with MC-B also featuring well] and then a PB for Revee Walcott-Nolan in Zagreb [4:03.84].

The race for selection at next year’s trials should be one of the competition highlights with each of the above likely to be mentioned.

Laura Muir hasn’t become the fastest vet in the world without being smart, empathetic and determined. Whatever disruptions she had to her preparation for Budapest now seems behind her. She understands her competition, knows the various permutations that might play-out in the final and with a stable winter block of training I have no doubt she will give it everything she has to upgrade her medal in Paris before retiring to a small practice with all creatures great & small. UK Athletics will certainly be keen to have her make the short trip. I would not be surprised if she is given the nod-and-wink to miss the 1500 ‘trials’, but it would cause chaos if instead she ran the 800 if obliged to show her face, so maybe a run-out in the 5000?

It’s worth noting, with resepct to Revee Walcott-Nolan, Loop-guru’s comments: ‘One thing to bear in mind with Revee is she beat out everybody in the trials for Tokyo 2021 including Katie Snowdon & there were 5 faster than her that year as well. I don't think even now with her revising her PB three times in quick succession we have seen the last of her improvements. She has not had any of the benefits bestowed on our other ladies running paced Diamond League's etc.’

Katie Snowden has the faster PB, beat MC-B in Brussels & Budapest [though not in NY] and has proven to be very quick over 800 [for any championship last lap burn-up]. I suspect, all things being equal, ‘Lady Katie’ is looking a good bet for a berth to Paris. [The dulcet tones of her RP accent is a joy for any interview ...]

What if Jemma Reekie decided to play games and miss the 800 ‘trials’ and run the 1500 instead, as I suspect her long term future might entice her. This may work for UK Athletics with reagrds to their even more taxing selection for 800 if, and only if, The Hodge was definitely competing in the two laps and not testing herself over 400… Only the final starting line-ups will tell.

Though one or two other youngsters will be a year further on in their career I don’t think any will be troubling the selectors but at the other end of the spectrum a fit & healthy Sarah Macdonald may yet have something to say.

I still have to remind myself that Adelle Tracey now grimaces beautifully for another nation and I am sure I read somewhere that one of the Irish girls doing so well of late could have as easily been wearing a GB kit. Given the number of young woman that jog in my part of north London I’m not surprised that middle distance has attracted so much talent; if only jumping barriers was as ‘trendy’.

Women’s 1500 for Team GB is in a very healthy place, I hope that UK Athletics are planning for life post Laura Muir as they will be very big running shoes to fill, and any future prodigy isn’t too limited by their refusal to fly due to principles…

[Ladyloz]

Sarah MacDonald's return to form over the 2nd half of this season has been very pleasing - frustratingly just 0.03 outside the Olympic auto Q. Good to see her take up selection for the Road Mile at the Road Running World Champs in a few weeks time in the (understandable) absence of the bigger guns.

[HaroldAbrahams]

We do now have fantastic depth in the men's 1500m, and Wightman and Kerr are clearly among the world's best at their distance. But when you compare their achievements to the utter domination of Ovett from 77-80 (the Moscow Olympics 1500 apart), or Cram in 85-86, they are still some way short of that level. And the times being set today by the best 1500m runners have barely advanced at all from the Cram, Coe and Ovett's bests in the 1980s. Hypothetical I know, but parachute a peak Ovett into the modern 1500m scene and I reckon he'd be winning everything and probably running 3.26-27?

[Mikka]

So tricky to compare eras. As I think someone else wrote in another thread, we should probably disregard times because of the track and shoe technology improvements (although, having said that, Coe, Cram, and Ovett ran 3.29-30 with the rubbish old shoes, so you have to wonder what they could do nowadays...). I think the global depth is so much greater now though. So, in terms of competitive running, I would rank the WC wins of Wightman and Kerr up there with the triumphs from the 80s. Both those races were virtually perfect executions.

[BeHappy]

What seems to have been forgotten here is the competitive depth in the 80s just in the UK. If Cram didn't have to complete against Coe he would probably be a Worlds and Olympics Champion.

Kerr and Wightman have along way to go before they match the achievements of Cram and Coe (and Ovett). Let's hope for another global champ in 2024.