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Thought I would create another one of these (as they are enjoyable) as the news that James West ran 3:35.59 in Eugene on Sunday (after an unsuccessful NCAA semifinal) means that the UK top 10 men have all gone sub 3:37 for the first time in history (previous best year was 1986 when 10th was 3:37.2).
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I predict a very nervy and tactical trials race with lots of unhappy people afterwards. -
I think Kerr is a different animal to 2019. If it is slow, he’ll take it on with 800 to go. Maybe Wightman could live with him but no one else would.Comment
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Kerr vs Wightman is looking a tasty enough prospect on its own!Comment
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I would put a good amount of money on Wightman and Kerr finishing top 2, in some order. It is third place that really interests me - one of quite a few could get it, although I've heard rumours that Copeland is injured which would be a pity, as he would be my top pick to get itComment
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I was a young adult when Coe, Ovett, followed by Cram, seemingly ruled the middle distance ... but Josh Kerr's extraordinary weekend exploits is a timely reminder of just how good this generation actually is. Both he and Jake Whightman, I think I am right in saying, are faster than that legendary trio over 1500. Piers Copeland looks like he can seriously revise his time this summer, having beaten, Gourley, who Hannah England eulogised much about before the final, and Da'Vall Grice, who it must be noted, is the sixth fastest all time [faster than Ovett] ... with these 5 or 6 and maybe one or two more, is it time to recognise we are witnessing a blessed cohort, if not yet a golden generation...
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To even attempt to make comparisons of our current 800/1500m males with our golden trio and others of the 80s borders on the inexplicable. We all know that people on athletics forums here and in the USA consider times as just as important as winning. It's not times its victories that are the very raison detre of athletics. To try to equate Duvall grice in the same sentence with an olympic champion and world record holder , think Ovett,with none of the fancy shoes or too many super tracks, is pathetic.
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I do think Josh Kerr is a very special athlete. He seemingly has it all; the speed, the tactical racing brain and self confidence in abundance that you need at the top level. I am sure the Olympic medal will only have enhanced his self-belief further. There will be more global medals for him.
Wightman has been there or thereabouts but needs to take another step up if he is to make a podium on the World stage. Gourley is a solid runner and has made a World final and could feasibly do so again but I'm not convinced he could do much more than that. Grice is to put it bluntly tactically inept.
Shame Mills pulled out yesterday as he was having a good indoor season. I am intrigued to see how Copeland does in Belgrade and in the Summer. Also looking forward to seeing his fellow Welshman Jake Hayward in the summer who impressed me a lot last year.Comment
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Grice is sort of stuck. Not quick enough turn of pace to sit & kick and not strong enough to front run to a win. If I were his coach, I’d be trying the steeple and see what he can do - pace is regular and he’s no slouch over 3kComment
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Agreed on Grice - alas he is the equivalent of someone like Andy Baddeley, an excellent athlete and able to run a fast time, but not really able to be a factor in a Championship and now overshadowed by the newer stars.
Anyone saying Kerr isn't on a similar level to Coe, Ovett and Cram needs their head examined. It is demonstrably harder to win Olympic medals now than in the 80s, and he's just got a Bronze and is entering his prime. He likely won't win a global major due to the level of competition and the fact that Ingebrigtsen is younger than him, but he's the real deal. I also massively rate Copeland.Comment
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It must also be remembered that following the retirements of Coe (1990), Cram (1994), Elliot (1992) and Ovett (1991), Great Britain still managed to have at least one man reach the Olympic 1500m final in all the Games since 1996, bar one (ironically enough, that occasion being the London 2012 edition). Now though it appears that GB are in a position where they not only have potential for two or three people to make a major championship 1500m final, but also some who are talented enough to have realistic chances of medalling too.
Kerr is absolutely the most talented middle distance athlete we've had since the golden era of the mid-70's thru to the mid-late 80's, and I'm sure he'd regard it as a major disappointment if he wasn't at least on the medal podium again in Eugene, judging by the way he's been talking in interviews.
Copeland, if a race is run as a more tactical affair, could really come into his own, and even in true run races, is capable of staying in touch with the top class runners. Certainly someone not to underestimate.Comment
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Remind us all which global's Keer has won The fanboy club for Josh Kerr will have wait till hell freezes over to compare him to great 800/1500 far superior performers. Harder to win now ? Prove it. !! Shoes and tracks bo advantage today.will JK set 3 Wr in 41 days? Will he do double Goldie in the 1500m atxthe OG.Comment
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No-one has said he has won a global gold. What I said was that Kerr is on a similar level to the big three. On times alone he is 18th all-time, and was behind 7th and 8th all-time in Tokyo. Obviously, times aren't everything and advances in technology have meant that times are not properly comparable. He has won a global bronze over 1500m - Coe won two golds, Cram a gold and silver and Ovett a bronze (plus an 800m gold). In my mind, that qualifies as similar, especially regarding the below.
In terms of depth, the early '80s was pre the rise of African distance runners and competition was definitely a less global affair. The 1980 1500m final was 3 x Great Britain, 2 x East Germany, France, Czechoslovakia, Italy, Yugoslavia (1 continent). The 2021 1500m final was 3 x Great Britain, 2 x Kenya, 2 x Spain, 2 x Australia, USA, Norway, Luxembourg, Poland (4 continents). Annoyingly I can't find a World List for 1980, but looking at the Olympic finalists it is clear that the depth was much less than nowadays, so you didn't have finalist calibre athletes getting knocked out in the semis.
Philipo, can we have some stats/evidence to counter this reasonable assessment?
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Looking at 10 years ago, 8 men broke 3:40 in 2012. As of this weekend, still in April, 9 men have broken 3:40 already this year. The total was 21 in 2021, can 2022 hit 22+?Comment
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MysteryBrick , for season's lists - go on the WA website to Stats Zone > Toplists > All time Top lists, and change the date parameters in the filter. No need to fiddle with the calendar that pops up, just type in the dates and hit Enter.
Here's the list for the 1500 in 1980 -
https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/middle-long/1500-metres/outdoor/men/senior?regionType=world&page=1&bestResultsOnly=tru e&firstDay=1980-01-01&lastDay=1980-12-31
Although they claim to have world lists going back to 1900 they're applying modern standards to the cut-off points. For example, everything faster than 4:00.0 for the Men's Mile ... so naturally, there's no marks listed for the Mile pre-1954!Comment
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Not interested in stat obsessives. My point is and will continue to be that the number of British guys running sub 3.40 today is of little interest to me and possibly others, compared to actually winning globalsq or setting world bests. Lots of posters on Forums cannot wait to inform we lesser fans ,via their stat books , how knowledgable they are about so many stats . Not a member of NUTS are you MB.?
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