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A teamathon - a TV friendly Athletics team event - discuss

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  • A teamathon - a TV friendly Athletics team event - discuss

    Athletics teamathon - A proposal for a TV friendly team athletics event

    Format
    A team event, including both men and women, based on disciplines found in their respective multi events

    The competition would have ten disciplines in total - 5 events for men and women.

    The well established scoring tables for multi events would determine the points an individual gained from their performance. These would be aggregated to give a team score with the highest total score announced as the winners.

    I believe it is an improvement on a simple points system, as every second and centimetre improvement in an individual’s performance, coming last no longer gets just 1 point, no matter how high you jumped, or how fast you run, put a little extra effort could make a difference to the team’s total score.

    Extra jeopardy –There would be 4 core events for both men and women, and an hour before the competition began, a draw is made to determine the 9th and 10th event. However, a team selection is made prior to this draw and so would have to take into account the various permutations and perhaps select a recognised multi eventer, rather than a specialist, to cover the the possibility of the 9th event being for example WLJ, and 10th event, as an example,M400.

    Example – the core events might be (From Hep) Hurdles, HJ, 200, JV (From Dec) SP, Discus, PV 1500, (notice I try to have as wide a range of ‘track and field’ disciplines, and try to avoid duplication.)


    A good old ’Its-a-knockout’-style joker card is available, one for each team, that boosts the recipient’s score by 10% - to add an extra dimension of interest.

    It would be a 2 hour timetable

    Financial prizes from sponsorship.

    Discuss



  • #2
    Bimey - 103 views but not one comment - maybe because I didn't state the event would have 8 teams...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by carterhatch View Post
      Bimey - 103 views but not one comment - maybe because I didn't state the event would have 8 teams...
      Wasn’t this - or something like it - tried a few years back in Australia as one of Seb Coe’s “let’s make athletics better by destroying events that have existed for 150 years” initiatives?

      Comment


      • carterhatch
        carterhatch commented
        Editing a comment
        I would not be tinkering with the actua individuall events - which all remain true to the conventional formats - I am just proposing a way to score a team competition using the well established multi-event tables .... but thank you for being the first to reply!

    • #4
      Sounds like something that might be quite good fun to take part in, but I can’t see it pulling in big TV audiences on its own.

      Comment


      • carterhatch
        carterhatch commented
        Editing a comment
        Well, thanks for the feedback, Ursus. always very keen to know your views on all matters Athletics ...

    • #5
      Watching the European Team championships - I do wonder what results my scoring idea of a 'teamathon' might produce ... if I get really bored I might work it out post event...

      Comment


      • #6
        OK - with nothing better to do this Bank Holiday weekend hahaha ...

        As a reminder it is a 10-event format drawn from both men's Dec and women's Hep (so we can use the well established scoring charts) . However after Day 1 of the Eueopean Team Champs, and to get 5 events, i had to use mostly Men's Dec events - so its skewed slightly - with SP, 100m, 1500 and LJ, with just one women's event, 800 (After Day 2, it will have additonal events of men's PV, and Women's HJ, 200, JV and 100h)

        The teamathon scores are: Italy lead, with 5246, Pol 5154, GBR 5120, ESP 5070, FRA 5066, POR 4886, Germany are last with 4097 (as they had a DQ in w800)

        Comment


        • #7
          I calculated Day 2 scores for my 'teamathon' and would you adam and eve it!

          Poland and Italy finish on level scores 10551. in the time honoured fashion, to find a winner, I would need to count the team with the most 'firsts' - which I havent got around to...

          GBR 10397
          Fra 10175
          Esp 10140
          Por 9809
          Ger 9651 finished last despite Vettel trying his very best to make up for the DQ single handedly ...

          Comment


          • #8
            I know most of you are shocked (into silence) that I didnt show my working out for the scores ...

            I propose using the multi-event formats for the individual events, where applicable - for example, three attempts for women's javeilin and to fit the ten events into the two hours of broadcasting and showcase each I suggest the following schedule ... start with w100h, once finished mPV concurrently with wHJ, when they are both finished m100, followed by w200, once run, mSP concurrently with wJV, once both completed, then mLJ, with scores updated continullay the final two events will still have scope to make up differences in team scores, w800 and final event m1500

            Not set in stone, open to consultation, and happy to welcome other ideas ...

            Also, there is a prize money element.

            A PB wins the competitor £250, Home Nations record (including age groups) £500, British record £1000, European/CW £1500, World Record, a rather surprised look and a handshake!

            I am sure other forum users could add some ideas, I just needed to get this out of my head, like an itch.






            Last edited by carterhatch; 05-07-21, 12:33.

            Comment


            • #9
              i also sent the 'Teamathon' proposal to UK Athletics, marked FAO Cherry Alexander OBE - and guess what, I heard nothing back... Well, as my Gran would say 'better out, than In' ...

              Comment


              • #10
                As a variation on a theme, one thing I’d like to see, even at Champs level, are one day running, jumping and throwing quadrathlons based on Dec / Hep style scoring tables.

                The 4 events for jumps and throws are obvious.

                Running could be something like 100, 400H, 800 and 5,000.

                From the throws the best GB all rounder I’m aware of was Udechuku - 18.97 SP, 64.93 DT, 46.75 HT and 61.16 JT.
                ​​​​
                In the jumps you have Harrison with 8.45 and 2.32. Wouldn’t you love to know what he could do in the PV and TJ? Although I suspect someone like him would rather stick to specialised events than multis.

                Comment


                • trickstat
                  trickstat commented
                  Editing a comment
                  There have been a few British throwers who had decent marks in the SP, DT and HT (Sean Pickering, Paul Buxton from the '70s) but Udechuku is the one I can think of with a decent quality JT.

                  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harrison could do a very good TJ. Would be fun to watch him try PV.

              • #11
                There is definitely some scope to have a 'team' event using the multi-event tables to score performances... and thanks Ursus for the input. I emailed British Athletics a month or two back, asked that the 'teamathon' idea be passed onto Cherry Alexander - but never got a reply...

                Comment


                • #12
                  Carter something fairly similar already exists - DecaNation is a French initiative, the last edition was back in 2017 so it’s unclear whether or not it will make a return. As with all fringe events like this it’s success hinges on how many big names commit to compete. KJT was organising an event last year which got cancelled due to covid, the format was along similar lines

                  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DécaNation

                  Comment


                  • carterhatch
                    carterhatch commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thank you Treadwater, maybe I should email the idea to KJT! The DecaNation does have a very similar format [it reminds me there are no original ideas LOL] ... If not an event for the very big names, with TV/Media, could it not also be the basis of a 'match' between clubs....

                • #13
                  A bit late to this party, but I've discussed a few of these sorts of things around the house and elsewhere and do think that it is something that T&F can do to expand its offering and interest. The problem with it often comes down to the fact that some nations are simply not good in some areas for reasons of history as much as anything else.

                  The challenge though is that for it to be well received by the public at large they'd almost have to ensure that the competition format was replicated within the Olympics too. Whilst a "one off" teams event might pique a little bit of interest, the average man in the street will only take an interest in, say, a MD quadrathlon if the local hopeful can see that rewarded potentially by an Olympic medal too. There are very few sports that have one format of event for the day to day events, and then a different one at the WC or Olympics (that's not 100% true, but for mainstream sports it is a pretty good rule of thumb).

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Unfortunately, I think a combination of factors are working against getting a load of big names to compete in a team-scoring competition that's stacked enough to be shown on British TV.

                    Back in the 70s & 80s the match format - e.g., GB vs a few different countries or GB vs USSR - was quite successful and always televised, especially in the 80s. Obviously, the geo-politics of the time spiced up the USSR fixture a bit too!

                    But back then ...
                    a) the calendar of major events was less crowded - until 1993 the World Championships were only every 4 years, and until 2010 the European Championships were also only every 4 years
                    b) many top athletes, especially runners, were less cautious (less scientific?) than today's athletes about how often they competed
                    c) the television market was much less crowded and compared to today there was very little live sport on TV, so any live sporting events tended to be well received in those days

                    Just look at the European Team Championships versus the old European Cup. There were so few British athletes of great repute competing at the 2021 edition that it was relegated to the BBC Red Button. The European Cup and World Cup back in the 70s & 80s, even into the 90s, were big events with a lot of big name athletes competing. Now, the World Cup's successor, the Continental Cup, has been shelved because it wasn't attracting enough big names. The Europe vs USA match we had in the last few years wasn't a huge success either - there wasn't enough stars competing. I just feel the tide is against any new team competition given the 3 factors above.

                    They still have quite a few international matches in Central & Eastern Europe but they're mostly for U20s and U18s. They do work quite well however, in that a lot of the competing countries' best youngsters do compete in them - maybe because it's one of their first opportunities for an international vest and also because there's fewer international competition opportunities for them.

                    Perhaps that's the answer? ... make it a U20 or U18 match and promote it as Britain's rising stars versus the best of Europe's youngsters. To make it competitive from a team aspect you'd have to carefully manage the teams competing. It would be no good having GB vs Hungary vs Portugal vs Norway etc because it would be obvious which team would win. So, perhaps GB vs the Balkans vs Scandinavia vs Germany vs Poland etc, even though GB might still win?

                    The one international match for senior athletes that's still a big deal is Finnkampen, the annual Sweden vs Finland match. Often big stadiums are almost full for that (e.g., Stockholm's Olympic stadium) and it gets full TV coverage in both countries over the 2 days. What makes it a success? The history of the event is a big part of it I think - it started in the 1920s - and there's some strong neighbourly rivalry there too.

                    Comment


                    • trickstat
                      trickstat commented
                      Editing a comment
                      The World Champs didn't exist at all until 1983.

                      I can remember, in years such as 1977, 1981, 1985 and 1989, the European Cup being pretty much the biggest meeting of the season from a British point of view. It was great if you got selected for the Europe team for the World Cup but not everyone could be and sometimes the selections were a little subjective. Of course, our men then made it in their own right in 1989 which was a bonus.

                      I can remember the late '70s and early '80s matches where it was GB vs one other country and these were still a big deal. It could be the USSR, either of the Germanys or occasionally someone else such as Finland or Sweden. These matches seemed to go into decline generally shortly after the sport went officially pro/open in the early 80s. It does seem that for a 2 team match/dual meet to survive it needs a lot of history and a tendency for the sides to be closely matched over time. Hence the Finnkampen survives. It's not an international match of course, but the Varsity match does OK for similar reasons. Maybe perhaps Cambridge's men or Oxford's women might dominate for 2 or 3 years but the 'pendulum' is likely to start swinging the other way almost immediately.

                  • #15
                    Great input Larkim & LuckySpikes ...

                    As you mght have noted up-thread I overlaid 'teamathon' scoring to the last European Team Champonships - which came up with an interesting result.

                    You are right in your analysis, times have moved on, TV/Athletics schedules more crowded/discerning/wider choice/more platforms et al

                    and, yes, Luckyspikes, perhaps teams of U20/U18, with a guest of yesteryear athletics fame, plus a 'celeb', might enthuse a production company ...

                    Comment

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