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  • Just watched the race. Gidey got several major advantages over Hassan

    Better weather, warm & dry.
    Back markers got out of the way, so she ran a much shorter line.
    Evening conditions, so disco lights much easier to see.

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    • I think particluarly for the 5 and 10 the wavelight is a huge benefit for maximising performance, though perhaps with the massive negative split by Gidey yesterday that's not necessarily all there is to see in terms of the progress. But if you're marginal vs the WR then being guaranteed even pacing has got to be enormously beneficial.

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      • In commentary Geoff said that the gap between men and women is narrowing in the longer distances. And he's got a point.
        -And this is one comparison that the new tech does not spoil, since it is the same tech for every elite athlete running now.

        Paula R was almost the fastest Brit, man or woman, for a couple of years at her peak, and of course there is a theory that it is round-about the marathon distance that elite women should become better than elite men, all else being equal.
        But maybe the crossover distance is actually a lot less.
        It is an unfair moment to make the comparison, of course, but at which point in a 20k would Gidey overtake Mo!!!?? Maybe around the 15k mark?
        :-)

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        • Sadly, there's no streaming for this evening's Marseille meeting. See the explanation in the Live Streaming Links thread.

          The startlists are at https://www.meeting-marseille.com/up...TART-LISTS.pdf

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          • World Record fatigue is setting in with me as well!

            Purely from a comparison basis I find it troubling how much of an advantage the new shoes & the Wavelight confer (though I do get the argument that there's always been technological progress). My hunch says that together the shoes & Wavelight are probably worth about 4 seconds a mile at these longer track distances.

            So, I don't think any of these recent records are superior performances than the old WR performances of Bekele, Tirunesh Dibaba or Ayana.

            I'm still shaking my head a bit at whoever it was at WA that gave the green light (pun intended!) to the Wavelight technology. Whilst WR attempts over 5k or 10k involving just one superior athlete have never been the most exciting of spectacles, at least there used to be a fluctuation of pace that got you more involved in the attempt. For example, Tirunesh Dibaba's 3rd kilometre in her Oslo 5000m WR was 7 or 8 seconds slower than the previous kilometre, before she picked it up again. And I think there's also something about waiting for the next lap split that helps build tension, rather than being able to see for every single second of the race whether they're on pace or not. To me, Wavelight just seems to pander to the "instant gratification" crowd.

            Bah, humbug!

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            • Originally posted by LuckySpikes View Post
              World Record fatigue is setting in with me as well!

              Purely from a comparison basis I find it troubling how much of an advantage the new shoes & the Wavelight confer (though I do get the argument that there's always been technological progress). My hunch says that together the shoes & Wavelight are probably worth about 4 seconds a mile at these longer track distances.

              So, I don't think any of these recent records are superior performances than the old WR performances of Bekele, Tirunesh Dibaba or Ayana.

              I'm still shaking my head a bit at whoever it was at WA that gave the green light (pun intended!) to the Wavelight technology. Whilst WR attempts over 5k or 10k involving just one superior athlete have never been the most exciting of spectacles, at least there used to be a fluctuation of pace that got you more involved in the attempt. For example, Tirunesh Dibaba's 3rd kilometre in her Oslo 5000m WR was 7 or 8 seconds slower than the previous kilometre, before she picked it up again. And I think there's also something about waiting for the next lap split that helps build tension, rather than being able to see for every single second of the race whether they're on pace or not. To me, Wavelight just seems to pander to the "instant gratification" crowd.

              Bah, humbug!
              The aspect of the Ethiopian runs that disturbs, is that the athletes doing amazing things in a range of events from 800m to 10K are largely unknown to all and we have no idea how often they are tested
              i do not wish to join the Letsrun nutters, but it is surprising that people improve out of all recognition from previous known performances, partly I accept from the Shoes and Wavelight stuff, but i am not at all convinced that those athletes(not those that we know run on the circuit) get tested as they should
              . Sadly, the overt political posturings of many countries political and sports elite makes the sport far less attractive to me han it has ever been.
              Just look down the field in Ethiopian men and womens 800m, 1500m, 5000m and 10000m; how many have even competed outside of Ethiopia?
              Mind you, one is well aware that the self regarding NCAA do not carry of tests in full accordance with WADA protocols; they possess that idiot arrogance of which they are so proud.
              philipo
              Senior Member
              Last edited by philipo; 09-06-21, 14:24.

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              • Dont let world records over 5/10K put you off; it will need a lot more than the East Africans and other nations get form their special benefits , plus shoes and wave lighst to beat 9.58.,19.19 43.03, 1.40 and bits, 3.26, 7.53, 12.80. 46point, 10.49, 21.34, 47.9, 1.53 12.24, and a stack o0f field events for both sexes which are quite safe for a decade or so.

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                • Originally posted by Grassmarket View Post
                  Speaking as an official Old Geezer, I have seen middle & distance athletics go through these WR growth spurts before. Apart from the doping records, it’s down to technical or organisational progress.

                  Late 60s/early 70s - end of the old dirt tracks, arrival of all weather tracks.
                  Late 70s/early 80s - professionalisation & emergence of commercial televised meets
                  Early 90s - Emergence of professionally managed East African athletes.

                  Now we have this new combination of super shoes & computerised pace-making, opening up WRs long thought unbeatable. And what has always happened before is that eventually someone sets a genuinely outstanding record, after which everything will settle down for another decade or so
                  agreed, but happily there are i make it 34 events where the current performance madness does not apply. The crazy middle distance records and many men and women field events WRs from the 1980s doping decade survive. They will certainly see me out.!!!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by philipo View Post
                    ...
                    Just look down the field in Ethiopian men and womens 800m, 1500m, 5000m and 10000m; how many have even competed outside of Ethiopia?
                    ...
                    No, I think most of them have. I admit the W 800 winner was totally unfamiliar to me but the majority of the athletes throughout those fields I've seen competing outside Africa, either on the track circuit or in road races. Remember, that they also invited quite a few U20 & U18 athletes over, partially to have an opportunity to get qualifying times for the World U20 Championships.

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                    • I am too lazy and hot lucky to go into detail but in due course I must go the profile page ofWA to confirm your respnse: would you not agree there was a number of vast improvements by many ?

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                      • There are a number of world records that could get broken this season which I would heartily celebrate. Men's Sprint hurdles; Men's and Women's 400 hurdles; Men's Pole Vault; Women's Triple Jump and Men's Javelin. But these distance records just leave me cold.

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                        • The Ethiopians came to Holland and i have looked at the 24 athletes who made major or minor improvements in most cases, and the data is from WA profiles and progressions data.
                          The average age of the 24 athletes is is about 21 years of age, a handful are slightly older, and the comparison on the WA site which i have used is 2019 , thus mainly a 2 year improvement. I have looked so far at details for 12 athletes, men and women. The improvements are generally staggering and one wonders if the Kenyans can and will do the same improvements in the next few weeks. What puzzles me is that in the difference between say the period 2017 WC to 2019 WC we did not see whole sale amazing improvements by the then Ethiopians 19,20,21 and 22 year athletes; this year is very different and the first time we have been surprised, if not amazed, not just by the well known elite Ethiopians but the follow up athletes.

                          Lemi and Abate great improvements in 2 years; Nberet 8 seconds in 2 years; Azeze no previous record in WA profiles now 3.33.74 1500m;
                          Melak 21 seconds in 2 years from 2019; Mengesha 27 seconds in 2 year period;
                          Yehune, 12.59 5 k but no previous 5 k record is shown,for the 2 years period; Mesele a woman with no recorded 800m goes 1.58 and bits ?? ; Desta,a woman goes 9 seconds improvement in 3 years in 800m; Welteji,a woman who goes 10 seconds improvement in 2 year period; .Abraham Sime 16 second seconds improvement in the two years from 2019. The other 12 athletes to make up the list;
                          Hailu, Ketema,, Taye, Teferi,,Gebreselama, gemechu, Tefera, Zerfe are all in the 19 to 22 age group except a couple and have improved considerably.
                          i find these performances a little troubling unless of course a host of Kenyans and even Ugandans achieve the same objectives very soon; re the shoes so magical. Mmm??

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                          • what i have written, mostly factual is un appproved, No reason except PC nonsense.

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                            • Originally posted by philipo View Post
                              what i have written, mostly factual is un appproved, No reason except PC nonsense.
                              Are you talking about a post you've tried to make that was "Unapproved"?

                              There's a couple of possible reasons why that would be, but a moderator checking it isn't one of them (there are no moderators). It might be because:

                              1) You've made 2 edits too quickly after making the post - an anti-spam measure apparently, although I don't see how!
                              or 2) You've put more than 1 link in your post

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by LuckySpikes View Post

                                Are you talking about a post you've tried to make that was "Unapproved"?

                                There's a couple of possible reasons why that would be, but a moderator checking it isn't one of them (there are no moderators). It might be because:

                                1) You've made 2 edits too quickly after making the post - an anti-spam measure apparently, although I don't see how!
                                or 2) You've put more than 1 link in your post
                                i didnt make two edits before they wrote unapproved and i have not made a link. Very puzzling. Has the post i have sent not been seen by posters

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