iaaf rankings

[philipo]

what is the view of posters about the proposed 2019 rankings system for the WC in Doha?

[LuckySpikes]

I've got tons of thoughts (!) which I'll try to find time for in the next few days. Right now I've got NCAA XC Regionals to watch on FloTrack!

[larkim]

Have they announced the specifics? Not seen that yet, must go off and google...

[LuckySpikes]

Have they announced the specifics? Not seen that yet, must go off and google...

The test site is at https://worldrankings-staging.aws.ia...kings/100m/men where there's also a link for the Rules. Clicking an athletes name will show you what performances made up their ranking. If you were familiar with all-athletics.com's rankings, it's basically that (since the IAAF bought them out last year).

[philipo]

Have they announced the specifics? Not seen that yet, must go off and google...

yes IAAF have got a pile of info on the new |Rankings ststem and how it works; the hows I found it more by luck and seeing a quote about this system on T and F news Forum. Fascinating details of this years athletes in all events and how many points they achieved with performance acores equalling the results plus placings scores, averaged over 5 occasions during the qual season, in order to arrive at the Ranking position. Plus all sorts of brain busting adjustments e.g. wind over 2 mps in relevant events and its effect on your points.

[LuckySpikes]

It's worth looking at the original press release a year ago - https://www.iaaf.org/news/press-rele...world-rankings - and considering whether the system will meet the stated objective/s.

The wider context was described as "to help athletes and fans better compete and follow the sport they love."

Coe said of the ranking system, "For the first time in the sport’s history, athletes, media and fans will have a clear understanding of the hierarchy of competitions from national through to area and up to global events, allowing them to follow a logical season-long path to the pinnacle of athletics' top two competitions."

Edit: Two-part piece by highly respected IAAF statistician & writer Lennart Julin on determining championship entries with the new rankings system:
Part 1 - http://www.runblogrun.com/2018/10/wh...entries-p.html
Part 2 - http://www.runblogrun.com/2018/10/wh...tries-p-1.html

[philipo]

rather a solution for a problem that does not exist. Big mistake imo.
The top athletes in each event will fight to get into the DL where the higher points are on offer. What makes final views not quite ready is the lack of decision as to the performance level to enable athletes to quality by dint of passing the standard set for each event, but we hear that the IAAF stuff implies strongly that the standards will be set at very, very high levels.
I read somewhere that they intend to make the qual standard for all events the tenth highest performance of 1018; we await confirmation of this .
If you were injured for a big part of the year and did not manage the 5 performances, the basis of the Rankings system but did an excellent couple of efforts in the last few weeks before the WC unles those efforts were of the highest level then you could be left off teams and not be ranked. Some dangers coming up probably.!!

[LuckySpikes]

...
I read somewhere that they intend to make the qual standard for all events the tenth highest performance of 1018 ...

Oh, easy then. For example, I believe that King Cnut was the 10th ranked in the 110m Hurdles back then, 23.65 seconds. Grass track, wearing chainmail, no spikes. Obviously he'd be capable of much faster on a Mondo track with better nutrition etc, though the word on the street is that his training was intense.

[Occasional Hope]

I have a number of reservations. Partly, it just seems terribly complicated and the opposite of transparent; and the fact that different athletes will have different opportunities. Those who can get into DL events are at an advantage, which makes the DL organisers gatekeepers in a way which I am not sure is going to be fair to all. What country you're from, who your agent is, who likes/dislike you, reputation... On the plus side it should disadvantage athletes coming back after a drugs ban.

What's the betting on several lawsuits?

LuckySpikes - surely Cnut was a steeplechaser who had a disaster at the water jump?

[philipo]

Oh, easy then. For example, I believe that King Cnut was the 10th ranked in the 110m Hurdles back then, 23.65 seconds. Grass track, wearing chainmail, no spikes. Obviously he'd be capable of much faster on a Mondo track with better nutrition etc, though the word on the street is that his training was intense.

must keep an eye on my typing skills!!!!

[philipo]

I have a number of reservations. Partly, it just seems terribly complicated and the opposite of transparent; and the fact that different athletes will have different opportunities. Those who can get into DL events are at an advantage, which makes the DL organisers gatekeepers in a way which I am not sure is going to be fair to all. What country you're from, who your agent is, who likes/dislike you, reputation... On the plus side it should disadvantage athletes coming back after a drugs ban.

What's the betting on several lawsuits?

LuckySpikes - surely Cnut was a steeplechaser who had a disaster at the water jump?

tend to agree that there will be a big cock up with some athlete in litigious country. I reckon the disadvantages outweigh the minimal benefits. Some clever person persuaded the top brass of our sport rather too easily.

[treadwater1]

https://www.iaaf.org/news/press-release/revised-qualification-system-for-iaaf-world-a

So they’ve decided against it, for next year at least

[trickstat]

Good to see that common sense has prevailed. While I'm not against the idea of the rankings themselves to make them the primary method of qualification for a World Champs when they are still very clearly a 'work in progress' was a ridiculous idea. From what I've read, amongst the problems with the rankings is they give as many points to an athlete who finishes last in a Diamond League with quite a poor mark as another who does a genuinely world-class performance in a more minor meeting. There are also anomalies with points awarded for national championships.

[philipo]

Good to see that common sense has prevailed. While I'm not against the idea of the rankings themselves to make them the primary method of qualification for a World Champs when they are still very clearly a 'work in progress' was a ridiculous idea. From what I've read, amongst the problems with the rankings is they give as many points to an athlete who finishes last in a Diamond League with quite a poor mark as another who does a genuinely world-class performance in a more minor meeting. There are also anomalies with points awarded for national championships.

thank goodness the pressure from so many has borne fruit

[larkim]

I don't think we should be too fearful of the rankings systems not working really. The approach works in other sports, often more lucrative than athletics.

They do need to find a way to get the weighting between the different meetings effective - not everyone can secure a DL spot, so it becomes a vicious circle that the best ranked get invited, they then score more points and become the best ranked etc etc.

Having said that, no reason why they shouldn't slow down the introduction until athletes get more comfortable with it all. A year or two seeing the rankings work, perhaps with no direct consequences from them, will allow everyone to see an idiosyncracies in the algorithm and hopefully fine tune it to get it right.

In the end, it won't be the rankings at the top end that really matter when champs quali places are concerned - it will be those on the cusp, so it's there that the focus should be to make sure that the rules are effective and can't be gamed too much.