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2019 IAAFF World Championships (Doha, QAT) Post match analysis

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  • #16
    Originally posted by treadwater1 View Post
    I’m not overly surprised that the women have overtaken the men in the medal stakes, it’s been coming for a while. Athletics is seen by many young women as something they can excel at and find fame and fortune, the difference for young males is that they can still receive recognition and earn a living at a much lower level. How many young wingers on the books of premier league clubs could have been decent sprinters? The numbers being lost to football and rugby are only going up, it’s a difficult trend to reverse

    The medal table doesn’t make great reading but the fact that we have two new gold medalists is encouraging and in my opinion in both cases their best years are yet to come. I’ve only followed the sport closely for the last 6 years or so and over that period I’d say the injury problems have been slightly more noticeable this year. I think Prescod, Duckworth and Emerson would all have registered top 8s. The battle for bronze wasn’t what it could have been when you consider who was injured, Preiner only scored 6560, Emerson would have been ideally suited to that level of competition and will do well at future championships. Sophie Hitchon and Lake should have overcome their issues by next season too
    we have no idea whether the two athletes who you say should have overcome their issues by next season; blind optimism suits many; lake has disappointed frequently and may well have reached her best rather early and Hitchon may or may not recalibrate her technique and her mental abilities. We cannot say.
    I am not yet convinced by Duckworth who has talent in many of the events in the Decathlon but cannot run for toffee. wish he could look a little more like an athlete.
    I would be much more encouraged by our GB representatives if we could find a few male Long Jumpers, High Jumpers,Javelin, Discus and Shot throwers and not much better in the womens field events Our women Long Jumpers, plus Lake, disappointed and only Bradshaw showed some excellent performing.Discus , Javelin and Hammer... nowt.

    Comment


    • #17
      While 5 medals may not be the best ever haul, I think that looking beyond the medals gives room for optimism and a feeling that things aren't too bad. Of course it could be better, but i have to ask to what level should we expect things to be at?

      The USA absolutely cleaned up and left many nations with rather paltry medal hauls. France left with 2 medals and no golds, Australia got a single gold, Spain, Greece and Italy all got a single bronze. On the placings table we were soundly ahead of Germany and Poland.

      We consistently do well in age group chamionships and those athletes are transitioning better into the senior ranks than I feel they were 10-15 years ago. I don't have empirical data to back it up but I do feel that fewer good juniors are being lost to the sport in the 2-3 years after their junior career is over.

      There were enough performances on the verge of getting a medal or strong finalists that suggest to me the next champs could well have a better medal tally. Equally it could remain the same, but I think a result of 5-7 medals is a fair target any anything more than that would be an unexpected bonus. Jamaica has pretty dismal 2017 worlds but they came back with a bang in 2019 showing strength in the jumps and throws to add to their usual track showing. Add Elaine Thompson and Omar McLeod to the medal mix for Tokyo and Jamaica shoud be doing alright for the next few years.

      All in all I think the 2019 season has been a decent one for British athletes with lots to look forward to in 2020. This is not a 2005 into 2006 scenario where were left genuinely wondering just where the hell all the class athletes were going to come from...

      Comment


      • #18
        If I had to look at the athletes from GB&NI who I could see have a legitimate chance of winning a World medal in 2020-2023, I would have to say:

        Women
        DAS
        KJT
        Laura Muir
        Laura Weightman
        Both relays
        Holly Bradshaw
        Abigail Irozuru

        Men
        Zharnel Hughes
        Adam Gemili
        Miguel Francis
        Nethaneel Mitchell-Blake
        Josh Kerr
        Jake Wightman
        Callum Hawkins
        4x100m
        Callum Wilkinson
        Nick Miller

        It is not a comprehensive list, and there are huge field-shaped gaps, and the global standard is incredibly high at the moment.

        But it is not 2005-6 bad, there are some good juniors coming through (800 boys, Joshua Zeller, Alastair Chalmers, Tom Gale, Lewis Byng, Amy Hunt, Amber Anning, Isabelle Boffey, Holly Mills, Niamh Emerson, Molly Caudery, junior women's Hammer). I think the Champs was a 6/10 for GB and Tokyo will be the same, if not a 7.

        Comment


        • Biggut
          Biggut commented
          Editing a comment
          Shouldn’t Hitchon and Okoye be in that list filling some of the throwing gap? Potentially Ben Williams too.

        • RunUnlimited
          RunUnlimited commented
          Editing a comment
          Well, with Hitchon's struggles the last year or so, and the fact that she ended her season early citing a lack of confidence in her throwing technique, then it's uncertain if she'll be able to return to her 2016 form any more. And we're still not sure if Okoye is going to stick around in Discus or just move on with his life elsewhere.

          Ben Williams is probably the one to include in the jumps, but then again this breakthrough season of his might be a one-off with his extensive history of leg injuries, so whether he can replicate and improve upon his 17.28m next year and beyond is yet to be seen.

      • #19
        Originally posted by Runner88 View Post
        While 5 medals may not be the best ever haul, I think that looking beyond the medals gives room for optimism and a feeling that things aren't too bad. Of course it could be better, but i have to ask to what level should we expect things to be at?

        The USA absolutely cleaned up and left many nations with rather paltry medal hauls. France left with 2 medals and no golds, Australia got a single gold, Spain, Greece and Italy all got a single bronze. On the placings table we were soundly ahead of Germany and Poland.

        We consistently do well in age group chamionships and those athletes are transitioning better into the senior ranks than I feel they were 10-15 years ago. I don't have empirical data to back it up but I do feel that fewer good juniors are being lost to the sport in the 2-3 years after their junior career is over.

        There were enough performances on the verge of getting a medal or strong finalists that suggest to me the next champs could well have a better medal tally. Equally it could remain the same, but I think a result of 5-7 medals is a fair target any anything more than that would be an unexpected bonus. Jamaica has pretty dismal 2017 worlds but they came back with a bang in 2019 showing strength in the jumps and throws to add to their usual track showing. Add Elaine Thompson and Omar McLeod to the medal mix for Tokyo and Jamaica shoud be doing alright for the next few years.

        All in all I think the 2019 season has been a decent one for British athletes with lots to look forward to in 2020. This is not a 2005 into 2006 scenario where were left genuinely wondering just where the hell all the class athletes were going to come from...
        THANK YOU!

        The way some folks on here and the media in general have been reacting to GB's performance in Doha, you'd think that the sport of athletics was on the verge of complete collapse. That isn't even remotely true and all you have to do is look back to those 2005 WC and 2006 Euro Champs to see how low of an ebb British athletics (as a *whole*) was in. Then, the last of the late 80's through to 90s and early 2000 generation of British stars had retired and the many shortcomings of the administration, who had sat back and relied on their medal grabbing performances while not doing enough to bring through the next generation to take over, were suddenly exposed.
        Heck even IN the generation of Christie, Gunnell, Edwards, Backley, Jackson, et all, there were major championships where Britain either didn't attain a single gold medal (Atlanta '96) or got fewer than 4 medals overall (Athens '97), or the expected stars underperformed (Edwards in Athens '97, Sevilla '99 - Jackson all of the Olympic Games he was in).

        2019 in Doha is nowhere near a low point for this nation, and we could have finished with 6 or 7 medals if not for Gemili's near-miss and Miller's very marginal foul throw.

        Yes, there *are* definitely issues in some events, in particular the men's throws other than hammer, all the women's throws outside of the shot, and the men's 400m looking very weak behind MHS, but to say it's in decline at the moment is definitely not true.

        Comment


        • #20
          Originally posted by RunUnlimited View Post

          THANK YOU!

          The way some folks on here and the media in general have been reacting to GB's performance in Doha, you'd think that the sport of athletics was on the verge of complete collapse. That isn't even remotely true and all you have to do is look back to those 2005 WC and 2006 Euro Champs to see how low of an ebb British athletics (as a *whole*) was in. Then, the last of the late 80's through to 90s and early 2000 generation of British stars had retired and the many shortcomings of the administration, who had sat back and relied on their medal grabbing performances while not doing enough to bring through the next generation to take over, were suddenly exposed.
          Heck even IN the generation of Christie, Gunnell, Edwards, Backley, Jackson, et all, there were major championships where Britain either didn't attain a single gold medal (Atlanta '96) or got fewer than 4 medals overall (Athens '97), or the expected stars underperformed (Edwards in Athens '97, Sevilla '99 - Jackson all of the Olympic Games he was in).

          2019 in Doha is nowhere near a low point for this nation, and we could have finished with 6 or 7 medals if not for Gemili's near-miss and Miller's very marginal foul throw.

          Yes, there *are* definitely issues in some events, in particular the men's throws other than hammer, all the women's throws outside of the shot, and the men's 400m looking very weak behind MHS, but to say it's in decline at the moment is definitely not true.
          what about the poor short and long hurdles ... not in decline??. you will have your little jokes.

          Comment


          • Biggut
            Biggut commented
            Editing a comment
            That depends on where you measure from and how deep you measure.

        • #21
          UK Sport set the medal target at 7-9, there has been a fair amount of talk in the media that medal targets are unhelpful and detract from the enjoyment of the sport. With that in mind I’m surprised the medal target was what it was. There was always a chance that the first major championships without Farah would result in a lower total

          The higher medal target could be a sign of things to come, Grainger has said that sports such as Badminton and Basketball who currently don’t receive any funding, in future will. So any funding they do receive will likely come from a reduction in the amounts going to sports that are underperforming. The funding outlines for Tokyo will already be in place but if we have another medal haul in the 5-6 range athletics could be one of those on the receiving end of a cut

          Comment


          • #22
            Originally posted by philipo View Post

            what about the poor short and long hurdles ... not in decline??. you will have your little jokes.
            Men's 110m Hurdles

            Pozzi has been struggling to recover from an injury he picked up mid season and wasn't at his best in Doha. He'd set a season's best of 13.28 earlier in the season and he looked set to have a good season until the injury.
            Meanwhile we didn't send an invite to Doha for Cameron Fillery, despite the 21 year old having lowered his PB by over half a second just this year, as well as winning a bronze at the Euro U-23 Champs. He was deserving of being taken and would have improved further while in Doha too.
            Below that level we've got Joshua Zeller who looks well set for senior success in 2020 and beyond after the way he won the Euro U-20s this year, and in 2020 we'll almost certainly see another super talented teenager coming from the youth ranks into the junior age groups in the form of Joseph Harding, who is coached by Tony Jarret and I feel will be in junior record breaking form at the World Juniors in Nairobi. So in terms of depth in the men's short hurdles, I'd say things are looking ok for Britain.

            Men's 400m Hurdles

            Are you saying that Chris Mcalister's season and his performances at Doha were a source of worry? A guy who improved his best by almost 3 seconds this year and wasn't far off making the final in Doha, managing it with yet another PB? And all this will working as a fully time lawyer? Give over mate.

            Behind him there is Jacob Paul who just missed out on the qualifying standard and Rodger who after an early season of promise was sidelined by injury for the rest of it. At the U-23 level there is Alaster Chalmers who broke the British U-23 record this year who is looking like a really top prospect in the next few years (though he did mess up at the Euro U-20's with his DQ) and Seamus Derbyshire who claimed a very good silver at the same championships after improving his PB significantly.
            Plenty of depth there.

            Women's 100m hurdles

            The only one here that is a real worry. Outside of the Ofili sisters, there is basically no strength in depth in women's sprint hurdles, at least at the senior level. It looks like Lucy Hatton is pretty much done as she hasn't run since 2016 while Serita Solomon has retired, and Yasmin Miller and Alicia Barret (still an U-23) have failed to develop from their promising junior years and need to find form quickly in the next 2 to 3 years or else they will be just also-rans.

            There is some hope though in the form of Lucy-Jane Matthews, European U-20 bronze medalist who broke the UK age 16 best over the hurdles in that race. She is certainly one to keep an eye on in the future, though I think its possible her best event could turn out to be the 400m hurdles in the years to come.

            Women's 400m hurdles

            Obviously we're looking at an event that on the world stage is perhaps at it's strongest in terms of sheer talent in its history, yet that doesn't mean that on a domestic level things are looking bad for GB long hurdlers. Quite the opposite in fact. Meghan Beesley will never likely become a world beater and she got it wrong in Doha in her semi-final, but she is a reliable, solid performer who has managed to get the maximum out of her talents and will continue to do so for a few years to come. Jessica Turner meanwhile has had a fantastic year, lowering her PB numerous times this season and did so again in Doha where she aquited herself well in heat an semi-finals, lowering her best again in the process. She was also very good in the 4x400m relay final.

            Other than them, there was also the very unlucky Jessie Knight who should have been given an invite to the Worlds after how well she's run this year, Lina Nielsen, Lauren Thompson and at the junior level, ,Marcey Winter is looking very good in her age group. So again, there is certainly some talent in this event for Britain and I'm not seeing what is particularly bad about it Mr Negative.

            Comment


            • #23
              I have to say I am not negative at all about GB's performance and potential. 43 countries made the medal table, and we still figure in the top 6 (highest of all European countries). It's a young group of athletes with many on the rise, such as Callum Hawkins. Our middle distance runners are starting to become world class. Our sprinters (and jumpers) are world class. No need for worry, even if we need to keep our eye on supporting their progress..

              Comment


              • #24
                Originally posted by ThrowsFan View Post
                I would just like to point out that Grenada have not produced a world champion javelin thrower. He is based and coached in the USA, won the NCAA title this year. His fellow team mate is also one of the worlds top U20 throwers having thrown 78m.
                With that kind of logic Kat's victory should go to France as she wasn't 'fulfilling her promise' whilst in the UK with Mike Holmes and the change has certainly been the key to her success. And Mondo isn't a Swedish / European silver pole vaulting medal but America's medallist also.

                Comment


                • #25
                  Originally posted by LoveSprints1 View Post

                  With that kind of logic Kat's victory should go to France as she wasn't 'fulfilling her promise' whilst in the UK with Mike Holmes and the change has certainly been the key to her success. And Mondo isn't a Swedish / European silver pole vaulting medal but America's medallist also.
                  cool response

                  Comment


                  • #26
                    Originally posted by Jeremy1066 View Post
                    I have to say I am not negative at all about GB's performance and potential. 43 countries made the medal table, and we still figure in the top 6 (highest of all European countries). It's a young group of athletes with many on the rise, such as Callum Hawkins. Our middle distance runners are starting to become world class. Our sprinters (and jumpers) are world class. No need for worry, even if we need to keep our eye on supporting their progress..
                    Which of our sprinters , apart from Hughes who ran poorly, and Gemili who still has a best 200m from some years ago, had you in mind.?? Prescod, presumably,but we have to wait to make a further judgment on him .Our middle distance athletes still remain for me on trial; the 3.31 stuff is fine in DL races, and lets face it that race in Doha was a bit like a DL race with the winner being the pace maker, but it remains to be seen in the next two years how world class they are. Our 800m runners are not yet world class. You state our jumpers are world class. Our best LJ this year was Fincham Dukes at 8 metres. HJ nowt, Pole Vault two 5.71 guys , nothing special and one male tripler who was way off his best when it mattered.
                    As for our women jumpers, we have one a world class PVer in HB; Morgan Lake continues to underperform and go slightly backwards; ourLJers are somewhat unreliable as they proved last week;our middle distance women disappointed in the 800m; the only true world class runner in the MD events is LM., for sure.
                    We are as you state the best ranked team in Europe, but the question remains how relevant euro track standards are to the rest of the world.Not too much talent across the board, but i loved to see Krause coming on so well.

                    Comment


                    • Jeremy1066
                      Jeremy1066 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Hi Philipo – I guess I'm just not as negative as you are, and feel that we have some good prospects despite some obvious gaps. When it comes to the collective of our sprinters, we are pretty strong relatively speaking with standouts of course, such as DAS, Hughes and, yes, I believe Prescod will deliver. I also have hope for Francis. Maybe DL style performances do not count for you, but Kerr is young and I see great things for him. What's more, we have some promising MD youngsters that are worth considering for down the road. I can see how you feel our women LJers are unpredictable - but when did we have so many with those types of PBs? Agree that on the men's side we are in deficit, but certainly not dire. I could go on to cite individuals across the board, but it's clear your gauge is being in top 2 in world per event in the moment . BTW - things are just more competitive on a global level now - but I was reading the Athletics section on L'Equipe and posts on their forum are positively envious of GB's performances.
                      Last edited by Jeremy1066; 10-10-19, 23:41.

                  • #27
                    Morgan Lake did jump a pb indoors this year before her family issues. So hopefully she can get back up there and improve from there - although admittedly it's a very competive event now and she needs to get over 2 metres to hope for a medal

                    Comment


                    • #28
                      i was noting that Jeremy mentioned my beloved L'equipe which i read every day for over 20 years whilst i was working in London. a great T and F source; always recall at the never to be forgotten Stuttgart 93 when Brits set two world records the l'equipe headlines said "ces magnifiques brittaniques" in reference to our goldies and Linford beat the Yanks.... Loved it.

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